Riona (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rionaleonhart) wrote2019-08-19 07:38 pm
rionaleonhart) wrote2019-08-19 07:38 pm
Entry tags:
I Guess They Weren't Just Old For Show.
I've just finished Minagoroshi, the seventh instalment of Higurashi: When They Cry! These notes were made as I played, so I'll occasionally ask questions that end up being answered later in the episode.
We're told to bear three rules in mind when trying to work out what's going on:
Rule X: people become paranoid and murderous in multiple worlds.
Rule Y: Tomitake, Takano and Rika are murdered in every world.
Rule Z: I think this one is 'people believe the Sonozaki family are behind the Watanagashi murders, and they encourage this misconception'?
Murdering Rika causes the supposed gas eruption that massacres Hinamizawa? And she has to be murdered under specific circumstances; Hinamizawa isn't wiped out if she just happens to be killed for other reasons? What??? I'd just assumed that Watanagashi and Meakashi ended before the eruption; I hadn't realised it didn't happen at all in those universes!
So I suppose my previous theory - that Rika's killed before the massacre so she can't carry knowledge of it into future loops - was incorrect. If that were the reason, the massacre wouldn't be prevented by her dying under different circumstances.
Rika's slowly losing her ability to experience a single timeline; her memories from all the parallel worlds she's lived through are mixing together, and she knows that she needs to break the cycle of tragedy before she loses her mind. This is perfectly calculated to fascinate me.
Rika says she's the only person who can see Hanyuu. But... I think Keiichi's father mentioned seeing Rika and Hanyuu playing together once? Or two girls with long hair, at least. I think that was why he decided to move to Hinamizawa.
It's really interesting to see Rika's constant struggle to maintain the mask she wears around her friends.
Also interesting: the way time loops work in this game, which isn't something I've seen before. It's not a case of 'the same events repeat, guaranteed, provided the conditions remain the same'. Some events are guaranteed, but, if there's an element of randomness to an event, it may occur in different ways in different loops.
Keiichi asks whether Rika's bored, or tired, and she's so thrown; she wasn't expecting concern! I'm so endeared by Keiichi's habit of cheerfully, jokingly checking on his friends if he notices something seems off.
Oh, my goodness, this is the most heartwarming scene involving Pop-up Pirate I've ever seen.
Keiichi gives the doll to Mion! !!! I want to know what he was feeling while making that decision.
Keiichi tossed the doll to Mion as if passing her a basketball. As if forcing her to carry his bag, or something. Mion's face quickly turned red. Feeling shy, Keiichi turned away from her. These idiots. This whole scene is so cute and I'm smiling so much.
Oh, hey, we're in Keiichi's perspective! Hi, Keiichi! I'm so fond of this stupid kid.
Wait, what, why is Shion at the school? Is this a dream sequence? That would explain all the WILD PRAISE everyone is heaping on Keiichi.
yessssss, I love Keiichi being haunted by almost-memories of past loops and not quite knowing what's going on
Oh, hey, Rena's having vague memories as well!
So was the thumping noise Shion heard in the storehouse Hanyuu jumping up and down, upset that these people had invaded her sanctuary? (That would also explain how Rika learnt about the storehouse intrusion.) Is Hanyuu the extra footstep heard by people descending into paranoia?
I was not expecting Oyashiro-sama to be so cute.
Tomitake heard the noise in Watanagashi, and he does here as well. The people who hear Hanyuu seem to be people afflicted by paranoia. So Tomitake is afflicted? That might go some way to explaining why he and Keiichi die in the same way in Onikakushi.
HEY TOMITAKE I'M STARTING TO THINK YOU'RE NOT A PHOTOGRAPHER AT ALL
Tomitake and Takano are killed in every timeline, and Irie also dies in several, if not all. Because they're all involved in seeking this cure?
If Satoko's ill, you have to tell her she's ill! This is extremely unethical!
If the Irie Clinic has a history of giving people shots without telling them what thy're being treated for, that might have implications for why the manga bothered to include Irie giving Keiichi a shot for his feigned cold in Onikakushi.
...er, guys, do you have a habit of secretly assigning people to watch anyone who displays signs of paranoia for their protection? So paranoid people end up noticing they're being followed and not knowing why? This... this doesn't seem like a great system.
Takano controls the Mountain Dogs. In the Onikakushi universe, she's dead by the time they start following Keiichi. So why are they following him? I can't remember whether they start following Rena before or after Takano's death.
TAKANO, WHY DO YOU HAVE THE POWER TO ORDER HITS, WHAT SORT OF MEDICAL CLINIC IS THIS
How did Rika come to know that Takano dealt in bodyguards and murder? Takano doesn't seem surprised that she knows. Did Takano just go 'hey, kid, just so you know, if you ever need a hit done...'?
Hey, Rika, if you really want to get rid of Satoko's uncle, two of your friends already have solid 'murdering Satoko's uncle' experience!
Rika-chan was looking at the ground with a depressed look all day. My chest hurt just remembering it... Keiichi has such honest love and concern and respect for his friends, and it's really endearing. I love that these guys play around all the time but get really serious about protecting each other if someone's in trouble.
It's not a crime to be powerless. It's a crime to do nothing. God, these poor kids. You shouldn't have to deal with any of this!
The overarching lesson in Higurashi is 'don't do a murder. If you feel like doing a murder, talk to your friends, and they will try to help you find non-murderous solutions to your problems.'
Keiichi, are you going to ask your parents for help?
You are! He seems to have a pretty good relationship with his parents, but he's never gone to them for help with his assorted horrible problems before. (Well, if you don't count the time he asked his mum 'hey, just hypothetically, how would you commit a murder and not get caught?')
I love 'My dad is a strange artist, but my mom is a normal person with common sense.'
It's really weird to see people in this series trying to solve problems without even a little murder. (Also weird: Keiichi and Ooishi getting along!)
It's so good to see the entire school coming together to help Satoko! There's a surprising amount of honest faith in humanity in this series about horrible murders.
I'm not entirely grasping this 'throw out all the rotten tatami mats' metaphor. Guys, I don't think you're planning to murder all the influential elders in the village, but you'll have to forgive me for letting that cross my mind, given which series you're in.
Keiichi formally asking Mion's grandmother for her family's help and then saying, 'Well, I'll just kill you and Mion will take your place as the family head; she'll help' when she refuses is great. Excellent negotiation skills, Keiichi.
And then his response when he's told he has to stick to the story that he actually did jump on her and try to choke her is 'W-why? That's so violent...!' and I love him.
I enjoyed Mion and Shion's mother embarrassing her daughters by asking Keiichi which of them he prefers in front of them.
There are universes in which Keiichi never moves to Hinamizawa! And they're the worst ones from Rika's perspective!
It's surreal to see Keiichi so pleased to see his mahjong friend Ooishi.
don't do a murder, Takano
goddammit Takano what did I just say
I'd forgotten Tatarigoroshi heavily implied that Takano was behind Tomitake's murder! Does she murder Irie as well, in the timelines where he dies?
This whole SECRET CONSPIRACY TO LET THE PARANOIA ILLNESS PLAY OUT plot is, I'll be honest, a bit silly. Higurashi is stronger when it's working on a smaller scale, showing us the individual characters and how much they care about each other and how much they suffer.
Is Takano behind the Great Disaster as well? Why???
'I'm going to go and die' - Takano fakes her death?
Holy shit, was Tomitake still alive in the boot of Takano's car when Takano drove Keiichi home in Tatarigoroshi?
Is Takano's dream specifically to be a part of the 'curse of Oyashiro' murders? Well, it's good that she's working so industriously towards her goals, even if her goals happen to be horrible.
Oh, okay, she's stealing documents. That makes slightly more sense. I bet she loves being a victim of the curse, though.
This extended metaphor of 'not doing your homework' for 'failing to prevent your own murder' is becoming increasingly hilarious.
Rika worrying about how her friends will feel after she's killed is heartbreaking.
I'm strangely fond of Ooishi, The Most Gullible Police Officer.
My issues and my secrets are so devastating to me, but they stopped sounding like such a big deal when everyone talked about them together. Friendship! Although, I'll be honest, being about to be murdered is still a pretty big deal.
EVERYONE IN THE VILLAGE RESPECTS RIKA BECAUSE PHEROMONES COMMAND THEM TO, WHAT IS THIS PLOT
So... everyone in Hinamizawa dies of Rika not being around? Is Keiichi the sole survivor in Tatarigoroshi because he's relatively new and Hinamizawa Syndrome hasn't got its claws into him yet?
I really like the Steam art for Shion. She's got some great expressions.
Poor Ooishi, The Most Gullible Police Officer. It was good to have you as an ally in this universe.
Keiichi, Mion, Shion, Rena, Satoko and Rika are all sticking together for Rika's protection, but it's late at night and they're getting tired. I hope they all go to sleep in a big cuddlepile, which would be good for safety and also extremely cute.
I'm very suspicious of these new 'police officers' who are sending away the previous ones and Rika's friends. Stick together, guys!
Oh, no, apparently the officers are real. And about to get murdered, which makes me feel a little bad for suspecting their intentions.
These kids all care so much about each other and I love them.
KEIICHI KICKING THE ARMED MAN IN THE BACK TO SAVE HIS FRIENDS, HECK YEAH
It's great to see all the kids working together against an outside threat, when previously they've been forced to fight each other.
everyone so desperate to prevent Keiichi's imminent, inevitable death that he starts laughing, noooooooo
Listen, promise you'll all survive. STOP BREAKING MY HEART, KIDS.
holy shit, this is fucked up
as a side note, it's been nice to have Shion as an ally in this timeline
returning to the main note: holy shit, this is fucked up, the kids have been killed before but they've never been flat-out executed one by one in front of each other
I got a little tearful at 'Just two dull sounds had stolen away the lively Sonozaki sisters. It didn't add up.'
I keep thinking 'I should save' and then 'I don't want to save after these horrible events; I want my last save to still be when everyone was alive!'
I really like Rika gaining the determination to keep living her life, not to give up, even if her life really is just an inescapable cycle of tragedy. She can at least keep trying.
I'm glad she still has a companion in Hanyuu, too.
HOW IS THIS SOMEHOW STILL GETTING MORE FUCKED UP, THE CREDITS HAVE ALREADY ROLLED
Takano's goal being 'become a god through loads of murder' naturally makes me wonder how she'd interact with Light Yagami of Death Note. She'd find him very amusing. I don't imagine he'd be a fan.
The trouble with Higurashi is that episode six, Tsumihoroboshi, was everything I've ever wanted in a work of fiction, thus guaranteeing that the episodes following it would never match up. I didn't dislike this instalment, but I don't think it's a coincidence that I took a month to finish this one when I shot through Tsumihoroboshi in four days.
We're told to bear three rules in mind when trying to work out what's going on:
Rule X: people become paranoid and murderous in multiple worlds.
Rule Y: Tomitake, Takano and Rika are murdered in every world.
Rule Z: I think this one is 'people believe the Sonozaki family are behind the Watanagashi murders, and they encourage this misconception'?
Murdering Rika causes the supposed gas eruption that massacres Hinamizawa? And she has to be murdered under specific circumstances; Hinamizawa isn't wiped out if she just happens to be killed for other reasons? What??? I'd just assumed that Watanagashi and Meakashi ended before the eruption; I hadn't realised it didn't happen at all in those universes!
So I suppose my previous theory - that Rika's killed before the massacre so she can't carry knowledge of it into future loops - was incorrect. If that were the reason, the massacre wouldn't be prevented by her dying under different circumstances.
Rika's slowly losing her ability to experience a single timeline; her memories from all the parallel worlds she's lived through are mixing together, and she knows that she needs to break the cycle of tragedy before she loses her mind. This is perfectly calculated to fascinate me.
Rika says she's the only person who can see Hanyuu. But... I think Keiichi's father mentioned seeing Rika and Hanyuu playing together once? Or two girls with long hair, at least. I think that was why he decided to move to Hinamizawa.
It's really interesting to see Rika's constant struggle to maintain the mask she wears around her friends.
Also interesting: the way time loops work in this game, which isn't something I've seen before. It's not a case of 'the same events repeat, guaranteed, provided the conditions remain the same'. Some events are guaranteed, but, if there's an element of randomness to an event, it may occur in different ways in different loops.
Keiichi asks whether Rika's bored, or tired, and she's so thrown; she wasn't expecting concern! I'm so endeared by Keiichi's habit of cheerfully, jokingly checking on his friends if he notices something seems off.
Oh, my goodness, this is the most heartwarming scene involving Pop-up Pirate I've ever seen.
Keiichi gives the doll to Mion! !!! I want to know what he was feeling while making that decision.
Keiichi tossed the doll to Mion as if passing her a basketball. As if forcing her to carry his bag, or something. Mion's face quickly turned red. Feeling shy, Keiichi turned away from her. These idiots. This whole scene is so cute and I'm smiling so much.
Oh, hey, we're in Keiichi's perspective! Hi, Keiichi! I'm so fond of this stupid kid.
Wait, what, why is Shion at the school? Is this a dream sequence? That would explain all the WILD PRAISE everyone is heaping on Keiichi.
yessssss, I love Keiichi being haunted by almost-memories of past loops and not quite knowing what's going on
Oh, hey, Rena's having vague memories as well!
So was the thumping noise Shion heard in the storehouse Hanyuu jumping up and down, upset that these people had invaded her sanctuary? (That would also explain how Rika learnt about the storehouse intrusion.) Is Hanyuu the extra footstep heard by people descending into paranoia?
I was not expecting Oyashiro-sama to be so cute.
Tomitake heard the noise in Watanagashi, and he does here as well. The people who hear Hanyuu seem to be people afflicted by paranoia. So Tomitake is afflicted? That might go some way to explaining why he and Keiichi die in the same way in Onikakushi.
HEY TOMITAKE I'M STARTING TO THINK YOU'RE NOT A PHOTOGRAPHER AT ALL
Tomitake and Takano are killed in every timeline, and Irie also dies in several, if not all. Because they're all involved in seeking this cure?
If Satoko's ill, you have to tell her she's ill! This is extremely unethical!
If the Irie Clinic has a history of giving people shots without telling them what thy're being treated for, that might have implications for why the manga bothered to include Irie giving Keiichi a shot for his feigned cold in Onikakushi.
...er, guys, do you have a habit of secretly assigning people to watch anyone who displays signs of paranoia for their protection? So paranoid people end up noticing they're being followed and not knowing why? This... this doesn't seem like a great system.
Takano controls the Mountain Dogs. In the Onikakushi universe, she's dead by the time they start following Keiichi. So why are they following him? I can't remember whether they start following Rena before or after Takano's death.
TAKANO, WHY DO YOU HAVE THE POWER TO ORDER HITS, WHAT SORT OF MEDICAL CLINIC IS THIS
How did Rika come to know that Takano dealt in bodyguards and murder? Takano doesn't seem surprised that she knows. Did Takano just go 'hey, kid, just so you know, if you ever need a hit done...'?
Hey, Rika, if you really want to get rid of Satoko's uncle, two of your friends already have solid 'murdering Satoko's uncle' experience!
Rika-chan was looking at the ground with a depressed look all day. My chest hurt just remembering it... Keiichi has such honest love and concern and respect for his friends, and it's really endearing. I love that these guys play around all the time but get really serious about protecting each other if someone's in trouble.
It's not a crime to be powerless. It's a crime to do nothing. God, these poor kids. You shouldn't have to deal with any of this!
The overarching lesson in Higurashi is 'don't do a murder. If you feel like doing a murder, talk to your friends, and they will try to help you find non-murderous solutions to your problems.'
Keiichi, are you going to ask your parents for help?
You are! He seems to have a pretty good relationship with his parents, but he's never gone to them for help with his assorted horrible problems before. (Well, if you don't count the time he asked his mum 'hey, just hypothetically, how would you commit a murder and not get caught?')
I love 'My dad is a strange artist, but my mom is a normal person with common sense.'
It's really weird to see people in this series trying to solve problems without even a little murder. (Also weird: Keiichi and Ooishi getting along!)
It's so good to see the entire school coming together to help Satoko! There's a surprising amount of honest faith in humanity in this series about horrible murders.
I'm not entirely grasping this 'throw out all the rotten tatami mats' metaphor. Guys, I don't think you're planning to murder all the influential elders in the village, but you'll have to forgive me for letting that cross my mind, given which series you're in.
Keiichi formally asking Mion's grandmother for her family's help and then saying, 'Well, I'll just kill you and Mion will take your place as the family head; she'll help' when she refuses is great. Excellent negotiation skills, Keiichi.
And then his response when he's told he has to stick to the story that he actually did jump on her and try to choke her is 'W-why? That's so violent...!' and I love him.
I enjoyed Mion and Shion's mother embarrassing her daughters by asking Keiichi which of them he prefers in front of them.
There are universes in which Keiichi never moves to Hinamizawa! And they're the worst ones from Rika's perspective!
It's surreal to see Keiichi so pleased to see his mahjong friend Ooishi.
don't do a murder, Takano
goddammit Takano what did I just say
I'd forgotten Tatarigoroshi heavily implied that Takano was behind Tomitake's murder! Does she murder Irie as well, in the timelines where he dies?
This whole SECRET CONSPIRACY TO LET THE PARANOIA ILLNESS PLAY OUT plot is, I'll be honest, a bit silly. Higurashi is stronger when it's working on a smaller scale, showing us the individual characters and how much they care about each other and how much they suffer.
Is Takano behind the Great Disaster as well? Why???
'I'm going to go and die' - Takano fakes her death?
Holy shit, was Tomitake still alive in the boot of Takano's car when Takano drove Keiichi home in Tatarigoroshi?
Is Takano's dream specifically to be a part of the 'curse of Oyashiro' murders? Well, it's good that she's working so industriously towards her goals, even if her goals happen to be horrible.
Oh, okay, she's stealing documents. That makes slightly more sense. I bet she loves being a victim of the curse, though.
This extended metaphor of 'not doing your homework' for 'failing to prevent your own murder' is becoming increasingly hilarious.
Rika worrying about how her friends will feel after she's killed is heartbreaking.
I'm strangely fond of Ooishi, The Most Gullible Police Officer.
My issues and my secrets are so devastating to me, but they stopped sounding like such a big deal when everyone talked about them together. Friendship! Although, I'll be honest, being about to be murdered is still a pretty big deal.
EVERYONE IN THE VILLAGE RESPECTS RIKA BECAUSE PHEROMONES COMMAND THEM TO, WHAT IS THIS PLOT
So... everyone in Hinamizawa dies of Rika not being around? Is Keiichi the sole survivor in Tatarigoroshi because he's relatively new and Hinamizawa Syndrome hasn't got its claws into him yet?
I really like the Steam art for Shion. She's got some great expressions.
Poor Ooishi, The Most Gullible Police Officer. It was good to have you as an ally in this universe.
Keiichi, Mion, Shion, Rena, Satoko and Rika are all sticking together for Rika's protection, but it's late at night and they're getting tired. I hope they all go to sleep in a big cuddlepile, which would be good for safety and also extremely cute.
I'm very suspicious of these new 'police officers' who are sending away the previous ones and Rika's friends. Stick together, guys!
Oh, no, apparently the officers are real. And about to get murdered, which makes me feel a little bad for suspecting their intentions.
These kids all care so much about each other and I love them.
KEIICHI KICKING THE ARMED MAN IN THE BACK TO SAVE HIS FRIENDS, HECK YEAH
It's great to see all the kids working together against an outside threat, when previously they've been forced to fight each other.
everyone so desperate to prevent Keiichi's imminent, inevitable death that he starts laughing, noooooooo
Listen, promise you'll all survive. STOP BREAKING MY HEART, KIDS.
holy shit, this is fucked up
as a side note, it's been nice to have Shion as an ally in this timeline
returning to the main note: holy shit, this is fucked up, the kids have been killed before but they've never been flat-out executed one by one in front of each other
I got a little tearful at 'Just two dull sounds had stolen away the lively Sonozaki sisters. It didn't add up.'
I keep thinking 'I should save' and then 'I don't want to save after these horrible events; I want my last save to still be when everyone was alive!'
I really like Rika gaining the determination to keep living her life, not to give up, even if her life really is just an inescapable cycle of tragedy. She can at least keep trying.
I'm glad she still has a companion in Hanyuu, too.
HOW IS THIS SOMEHOW STILL GETTING MORE FUCKED UP, THE CREDITS HAVE ALREADY ROLLED
Takano's goal being 'become a god through loads of murder' naturally makes me wonder how she'd interact with Light Yagami of Death Note. She'd find him very amusing. I don't imagine he'd be a fan.
The trouble with Higurashi is that episode six, Tsumihoroboshi, was everything I've ever wanted in a work of fiction, thus guaranteeing that the episodes following it would never match up. I didn't dislike this instalment, but I don't think it's a coincidence that I took a month to finish this one when I shot through Tsumihoroboshi in four days.