Final Fantasy VIII Is A Sixty-Hour Card Game.

[rionaleonhart]

My beautiful Squall/Zell dream inspired me to pick up the Final Fantasy VIII replay I started back in April and dropped when 13 Sentinels ate me.

How did the orphanage kids end up at Garden? Did they come with Edea when she married Cid? If so, why do Selphie and Irvine end up at different Gardens?

Or does Garden just have a habit of adopting kids in order to turn them into child soldiers? (Side note: horrifying.) Is that how Edea met Cid in the first place?

Actually, I seem to remember Cid and Edea set up Garden together. Maybe the orphanage kids were there from its inception. (Perhaps with the exception of Zell, who was fortunate enough to get adopted by an actual person and not a murder school. I wonder if he enrolled in Garden because his friends from the orphanage were there and then, on account of GF use, forgot they were friends.)

On the way to assist the resistance in Timber, Zell tells his mother he has 'outdoor class'. How much does Ma Dincht know about the nature of Zell's education?

'Have you improved your game?' Ma Dincht asks when we challenge her. Was Squall in the habit of playing cards with Zell's mother even before the game began? I would love that.

(Or are you canonically playing against her as Zell? I've just looked it up, and apparently she'll only play if Zell is in the party, so that might be the case!)

I'm never going to progress this game. I'm in Triple Triad hell and I'm not leaving until I've got a card with Zell's face on it. GIVE ME YOUR SON, MA DINCHT.

I got the card! I imagine Zell was slightly troubled to watch Squall and his mother having ferocious non-stop card battles for over an hour. Either that or he spent the entire time enthusiastically cheering both of them. I'm ignoring the 'you're playing against her as Zell' possibility because I enjoy this mental image so much.

(Although the mental image of Zell begging to use Squall's cards so he can finally beat his mum at Triple Triad is also very good.)

Zell's really enthusiastic about knowing things and sharing that knowledge, and it's pretty endearing. Hey, this train goes through an undersea tunnel; it's awesome! Do you want to hear about the history of Timber? He's not condescending about it at all; he just thinks facts are cool.

In the Julia flashback, I caught myself smiling so widely at what an absolute loser Laguna is. Strange to remember how distressed I was, the first time I played this game, to suddenly find myself inhabiting this unknown character. I couldn't possibly save; what if I never went back to being Squall?

It'd be fun if Laguna and company could actually hear and converse with the main party during the flashbacks, rather than just having a vague sense that there's some sort of presence around. Fanfiction material?

Comments

[pict]

Actually, I seem to remember Cid and Edea set up Garden together. Maybe the orphanage kids were there from its inception.

That's correct! It was Squall and Ultimecia, through the magic of time compression, that inspired them to do it. The tragic elements of this self-perpetuating stable time loop are so fascinating to me.

As for the orphanage kids, it isn't clear. Quistis says she was adopted, but didn't have a good experience with her adoptive parents (very ominous!) and joined Garden at age ten. And Selphie posits that the fun she had in her life, post-orphanage, may be a possible reason that she lost her memories of the time before that— whiiiiich honestly could mean anything. As for Irvine, it isn't even clear that he's a student of Galbadia Garden; he isn't a SeeD, and has zero military discipline. He could just be some sharpshooter-for-hire Martine grabbed from the gambling halls of Deling City for all we know.

[rionaleonhart]

Quistis says she was adopted, but didn't have a good experience with her adoptive parents (very ominous!) and joined Garden at age ten.

I'd forgotten about that! Poor kid. The way Garden just seems to absorb the young and vulnerable and mould them into killers becomes more unsettling every time I replay this game.

Martine introduces Irvine as 'an elite sharpshooter from Galbadia Garden', so I think he's a student, even if he isn't yet a SeeD! I think he just has zero military discipline on account of, er, being Irvine.

[pict]

Does he? I must have forgotten that bit! I just remember Irvine's origin being nebulous. Clearly I am also in need of a replay. Good job this game never gets tiresome. ♥

The fact that the SeeD final exam has such a rate of attrition is another curiosity. I want to go back and count how many students we saw during the Dollet exam, since my memory tells me it was four groups of three; and I can't even begin to remember if we see the same character models in the graduation announcement scene. (That scene itself is weird; I'm not sure why an instructor or a supporting SeeD, or even Cid himself, wouldn't take these kids aside one at a time and tell them what they did correctly or incorrectly. Garden is so sketch.) But only Squall, Zell, Selphie and What's-his-name Nida made it. Only four new SeeDs for the whole year? In an operation that needs to keep the lights on for three very expensive boarding academies? Maybe they have quarterly semesters with multiple graduations a year. Garden doesn't even get into if tuition is a thing, but it either pays its SeeDlings very handsomely or the economy of Eightslandia is just completely down the drain.

...Iiii went on a bit of a tangent there. I'll get my coat.

[rionaleonhart]

Only four new SeeDs for the whole year? In an operation that needs to keep the lights on for three very expensive boarding academies?

This is a good point, particularly given that the operation endangers the lives of its operatives! And then they immediately send three of the new SeeDs off to Timber; Zell expresses surprise that it's only three of them, and he's informed that it's because they've agreed to take the mission on for very little money. How many SeeDs are there? Enough for a three-person squad to be unusually small, and it's not as if Garden's been around for decades. Multiple exams per year would make a lot of sense.

(I just checked the script, and you're right about the number of people taking the exam; Cid says, 'This exam will involve 12 members from Squads A through D.'

Also, you never have to apologise for going on Final Fantasy VIII-related tangents on my journal! I want to talk about this game five hundred percent of the time.)

[pict]

Tell me you're obsessed with my FFVIII mini-essays without telling me you're obsessed with my FFVIII mini-essays.

[rionaleonhart]

I will freely admit that I'm obsessed with your FFVIII mini-essays.

[(Anonymous)]

Re: the orphanage kids, I always had some ideas about that but I don't recall if it's from anything stated in the game or if it's just a headcanon.

I'm sure it's stated that Seifer and Squall go to Garden at around the age of 5 - I think there's some suggestion that they were both particularly "unadoptable"? So I always assumed that it means that everybody else was adopted; we might just only see Zell's family due to the close proximity. I think there is a mention of Irvine and Selphie being adopted, but I can't think of anything more concrete. Then I think Quistis comes to Garden at around 10? I always assumed she was the next one in. Maybe they "recommend" the Garden as a future destination that they have an open invitation to when they are adopted out or something? And if nobody wants you cuz of issues, hey, you're not getting much of a choice.

And since Garden was set up to defeat the Sorceress (and I always felt Edea knew this could mean herself too), I think it's no coincidence that they'd want to recruit people who knew the -real- Edea.

-timydamonkey

[rionaleonhart]

I looked at a script, and you're right; Irvine says Squall and Seifer must have been at Garden by around the age of five, and Quistis says things didn't work out at her new home and she went to Garden when she was ten. Squall says, 'I don't think I was adopted because of the way I am,' which is sort of heartbreaking!

[lassarina]

I think Cid started the Gardens with Edea specifically to like....give all the war orphans a place to go since he and Edea couldn't take them all in? the legal mechanics of all of these orphans becoming soldiers give me nightmares, I will not lie.

[rionaleonhart]

'You know, orphanages are great, but they'd be so much more efficient if they trained the orphans into killing machines in order to produce more orphans.' There's so much horror in this game that goes bizarrely unexplored!

[lassarina]

Cid being Cid, I am absolutely certain he did not think that far ahead. He probably thought, "I'll give them combat training so the monsters outside don't eat them" and "with fighting skills they could protect towns or something" and then NORG went "my goodness, a delicious patsy, yes sir I will gladly fund your orphanage military school, and tell all my friends about the SeeDs they can hire!"

Because honestly Cid has more sweater vests than brains.

[anirrationalseason]

I remember my progress in the game grinding to a halt whenever I got caught up in Triple Triad hell. I spent hours trying to defeat the CC Group so I could challenge King. It's my favorite FF mini game of all time because IRL I suck at card games.

Laguna was my first Loveable Loser. ♥ I think he's the reason I gravitate so much to those kinds of characters.

[rionaleonhart]

My brothers and I used to draw our own Triple Triad cards, and then I'd back them with cardboard and bring them into school so I could play Triple Triad with my friends. It's such a good game!

[queenlua]

my brother and i found some random store selling the ~official~ Triple Triad cards while my family was on vacation in Orlando, Florida, of all places

we proceeded to blow all our hard-earned savings (from, like, a $2 weekly allowance lmao) on buying AS MANY PACKS AS POSSIBLE and then annoyed our parents the rest of the vacation by insisting on starting Triple Triad duels: in restaurants, in Disneyworld, on the beach, very late at night when parents were trying to sleep... such a good game! so worth it!!!

[rionaleonhart]

This made me smile a lot. You and your brother definitely made the right decision!

[rosa_heartlily]

Having just DONE the QoC sidequest, including finally working out the mechanics of rule manipulation, I completely agree with the title of the post.

I think everyone above has said what I was thinking about the individual adoptions.

A note on the funding - I guess B Garden charged a whacking great fee to the Dollet Dukedom for the mission, enough to cover their expenses for a year at least. G and T Gardens probably have to negotiate their own funding? I've also got a vague idea (no idea if it's stated in the game or I picked it up in a fic!) that some of the students pay fees for their education.

And on the note of disturbing thoughts - what do we think about the Training Centre? First of all, there are very real, very dangerous monsters in there, but they let the kids go in to train?! Secondly, they capture animals and keep them trapped - so they can be killed?!?!

I love this game so much and I really, REALLY want a remake, but it's on very shaky ground, morally :(

[rionaleonhart]

I'd love to see a remake that leaned harder into the moral issues. Squall and Seifer were raised to be mercenaries from the age of five, by an institution that's clearly aware of the memory loss effects of GF but just tells its students to ignore the 'rumours' of side effects. That's extremely screwed up, and it'd be really interesting to see the game acknowledge and explore that more.

[queenlua]

I wonder if he enrolled in Garden because his friends from the orphanage were there and then, on account of GF use, forgot they were friends.

damn that's sad in exactly the way that makes me say "ow, also someone write that fic"

and all those triple triad mental images are. so good. a+, v much vicariously enjoying this playthrough

[rionaleonhart]

I don't think I'd feel confident enough in writing the characters as young kids to attempt this, but I'd definitely read it if it existed!

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying my ramblings! I want to talk about Final Fantasy VIII at all times, so it's good to know someone benefits.