Riona (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rionaleonhart) wrote2008-03-07 07:25 am
rionaleonhart) wrote2008-03-07 07:25 am
Entry tags:
But What Are Their Thoughts On Incest?
Why is Sam always dominant in Sam/Dean fanfiction? Seriously, there are great big 'CAUTION: IMPLIED BOTTOM!SAM' warnings plastered all over fic that breaks this trend. Sam always seems to be the one who initiates the relationship shift, too, and the one who's more at ease with it. It can't just be because he's tall, surely? ...it's just because he's tall, isn't it?
All right, that's unfair of me; I'm just interested in why the idea of dominant, totally-okay-with-the-brothersex Sam is so prevalent in the Supernatural fandom, because it's not the way in which Sam/Dean works in my mind. I can see Dean having issues with it, of course, because he'd be keen to hold onto his heterosexual self-image (part of the reason the popularity of bottom-Dean surprises me; I can't see him taking what I'm sure he would think of as 'the girl's role' without a fight) and concerned about hurting Sam (and I'd say Dean's concern for his brother's mental and emotional well-being is the single largest obstacle to Wincest). But I imagine that Dean would probably be more at ease with the actual concept of incest, because he's embraced the fact that the Winchesters are Different, they are Not Like Other People, and he's so obsessed with his family that I don't think the idea of letting anyone else into his life has even occurred to him; if he wants anything remotely approaching a long-term romantic or sexual relationship, Sam is his only option. I can even see him thinking of that as obvious. "Of course my brother's the only person I could ever have more than a one-night stand with, pfft. Girls don't exist for more than two days."
Sam, though, Sam (for the first series, at least) has delusions that maybe one day he could find a nice girl, settle down, have a normal life. He doesn't view himself and his brother as being separate from the 'real world' in the way in which Dean does, and so he's less likely to think 'well, we're not part of society, so why should society's taboos matter?' I think that the concept of an incestuous relationship would freak him out far more than it would Dean, who is better able to handle the crazy.
I'm not saying 'THE ENTIRE SUPERNATURAL FANDOM IS WRONG', obviously; these are just my thoughts, how it works in my head, and I'd be very happy to hear another fan's perspective. I'm not quite half-way through Series Two yet, so there's a fair chance that episodes I have not yet seen may completely disprove the ideas I've built up about the Winchester brothers.
And 'Croatoan' broke my heart into a million billion tiny pieces, by the way. Just so you know.
All right, that's unfair of me; I'm just interested in why the idea of dominant, totally-okay-with-the-brothersex Sam is so prevalent in the Supernatural fandom, because it's not the way in which Sam/Dean works in my mind. I can see Dean having issues with it, of course, because he'd be keen to hold onto his heterosexual self-image (part of the reason the popularity of bottom-Dean surprises me; I can't see him taking what I'm sure he would think of as 'the girl's role' without a fight) and concerned about hurting Sam (and I'd say Dean's concern for his brother's mental and emotional well-being is the single largest obstacle to Wincest). But I imagine that Dean would probably be more at ease with the actual concept of incest, because he's embraced the fact that the Winchesters are Different, they are Not Like Other People, and he's so obsessed with his family that I don't think the idea of letting anyone else into his life has even occurred to him; if he wants anything remotely approaching a long-term romantic or sexual relationship, Sam is his only option. I can even see him thinking of that as obvious. "Of course my brother's the only person I could ever have more than a one-night stand with, pfft. Girls don't exist for more than two days."
Sam, though, Sam (for the first series, at least) has delusions that maybe one day he could find a nice girl, settle down, have a normal life. He doesn't view himself and his brother as being separate from the 'real world' in the way in which Dean does, and so he's less likely to think 'well, we're not part of society, so why should society's taboos matter?' I think that the concept of an incestuous relationship would freak him out far more than it would Dean, who is better able to handle the crazy.
I'm not saying 'THE ENTIRE SUPERNATURAL FANDOM IS WRONG', obviously; these are just my thoughts, how it works in my head, and I'd be very happy to hear another fan's perspective. I'm not quite half-way through Series Two yet, so there's a fair chance that episodes I have not yet seen may completely disprove the ideas I've built up about the Winchester brothers.
And 'Croatoan' broke my heart into a million billion tiny pieces, by the way. Just so you know.
no subject
Also, I dunno if this has anything to do with it, but I've always thought that where a person comes into the series has an impact on their topping-bottom mentality (and characterization in general). There are folks who got into the most recent episode and work backwards; there are people who start chronologically at the beginning; there are those who just skip randomly!
And this sounds dumbest of all, but I think reading fanfiction beforehand has the biggest effect. I mean, that's how a lot of people get into it-- by reading stuff ahead of time, and deciding to get into the show that way, and a lot of the better stuff was Sam-top and Dean-bottom, which just sort of built upon itself.
And then I have all these vague theories on the appeal of incest to people-- whether you like it because of the dirtybadwrong feel or in spite of it, and that's how preferences for top-bottom develop. And theories about how favorite characters tend to get put on the bottom, or whatever, but I need to get back to work!
no subject
The point about where a person comes into a series having an effect on characterisation views is an interesting one; I started watching whatever scattered episodes I could find before I bought the DVDs and settled down to watch it chronologically, and I think I probably do think of Sam and Dean and their relationship slightly differently because I didn't start at the beginning. And the fanfiction explanation makes a lot of sense; that hadn't occurred to me.
If you ever have the time to expand on your appeal-of-incest theories, I'd be very interested! I adore Sam and Dean's non-sexual relationship, so the entire point of adding a sexual aspect - for me, at least - is the dirtybadwrong.
no subject
Sort of. Not if it fits neatly into a standard abuser/abused dynamic, but if it's screwed up in a complicated way. Which was why Riona was the perfect person to get me to actually read incest fic.
And then I went to read the Wincest com, and was bored senseless. Because it's mostly happy, well-adjusted, not screwed up in the slightest (and oddly enough, bothers me more than the screwed-up stuff).
As for bottoming, I know I tend to favor two things; the guy who doesn't fit the girly cliche, and the character I identify with the most. Which, er, yeah, Dean Winchester (although in practical terms, I'm more like Sam; can't shoot pool, and did nearly as well on my LSAT).