rionaleonhart | Let It Never Be Said The Romance Is Dead...

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Let It Never Be Said The Romance Is Dead...

I've watched 'Sin City', and so I am now Officially Caught Up with Supernatural. This distresses me a little. No more episodes! Well, until there are more episodes. But no more episode backlog through which to work! Alas!

RUBY ♥. I love her a little more with every episode I see her in. Seriously, after 'Sin City', all I want is filthy filthy Sam/Ruby sex. You know, apart from the fact that I'm not a porn person. In theory, I want filthy filthy Sam/Ruby sex. I want Sam/Ruby sex to occur offscreen and Ruby to say 'HYPOTHETICALLY, WERE THERE ANY PERSONS WATCHING OUR LIVES AS IF THEY WERE PART OF A TELEVISION SERIES, I WOULD ASSURE THEM AT THIS POINT THAT THE SEX WE JUST HAD CERTAINLY WAS FILTHY'. It would be marvellous.

I would also not have an objection to filthy filthy Ruby/Bobby sex. Or Bobby/Bela. What? IT WOULD BE HOT AND YOU KNOW IT.

Also, he'll deny it if you ask him, but you know Dean totally had sex with Casey. Yes.

Also also, Sam continues to be the cutest person in the world, and I thought for some time that the mirrored-ceiling motel room Sam and Dean had checked into had only one bed. You were using deceptive camera angles deliberately, weren't you, Supernatural? I'm still not entirely clear on how I feel about the Sam/Dean pairing - sometimes I'm intrigued, sometimes I find it hot, sometimes I want to flail around and go NOOOOO NOOOOOOOO THEY'RE JUST BROTHERS - and I tend not to think about incest when I'm actually watching episodes (unless one of the two is possessed, in which case I am totally up for some wrong and twisted sex), but there are times ("This is my... sister." "This is my brother. AND THIS IS OUR MIRRORED-CEILING MOTEL ROOM THAT APPEARS TO HAVE ONLY ONE BED") when I swear the writers are encouraging it.

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...Why did Sam and Dean have a mirrored-ceiling motel room in the first place, even if it did have two beds?

...maybe they just like mirrored ceilings?

Did I mention that the beds vibrated?

Dean probably just likes to be able to look at himself at all times whilst getting a massage from his bed.

Oh my god, Dean's fixation on the vibrating bed!

I love that you love the idea of filthy filthy hypothetical sex. :D I am very much on board with Sam/Ruby, although I doubt that it'll happen because Sam doesn't seem to be falling into anywhere near as deep a pit of despair as I was expecting by this stage of the proceedings. ~~Damn writers' strike.~~ I thought a little miserable Sam/Ruby action would have highlighted Sam hitting rock bottom quite nicely.

I rewatched the wall slam scene from Salvation the other day. That just screams Sam/Dean. Anger, simmering emotion, pent up aggression, tearful confessions of Sam being all Dean has, inappropriate brother-touching. Sam only backs off after Dean mentions their dad. Like, lets out this painful little laugh at the reminder of family, pats Dean, and backs off, getting back to the job at hand. THEY DO IT ON PURPOSE. IT'S JUST NOT RIGHT.

I thought a little miserable Sam/Ruby action would have highlighted Sam hitting rock bottom quite nicely.

Man, yes, that would have been great. I'm not sure they're going to be able to fit it in alongside the bodyswap and Pokémon training and Sam-shrinking-to-pocket-size I am fully expecting in the finale, alas.

...and I think I may need to rewatch 'Salvation'.

I'm not sure they're going to be able to fit it in alongside the bodyswap and Pokémon training and Sam-shrinking-to-pocket-size I am fully expecting in the finale, alas.

Yes, that's true. There's only so much then can fit into a forty minute episode. Shame.

I believe the writers encourage. Also, Eric Kripke, Kim Manners, and both lead actors. It's a Wincest-encouraging conspiracy :p The way Sam's last line in What Is and What Should Never Be is another example... and how Sam grabs at Dean in Playthings. I fought it all quite desperately in the beginning, but they wore me down eventually.

'Playthings' was so full of gay that I just ended up gaping at the screen. SAM DRUNKENLY TRIED TO KISS HIS BROTHER. I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO INTERPRET THAT.

Another thing that's probably your fault in some way; my mind keeps trying to draw every whiff of Wincest into the "John Winchester and Anton Chigur are secretly brothers and had an incestuous relationship" idea, and put a creepy "history repeats" spin on the two brothers who travel endlessly, have no one but each other, and spend most of their time tracking and killing things.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Bad brain, go sit in the corner.

ksjdjsdsjggh YOU ARE AMAZING. AMAZING. That is wonderful. And also, you know, competely horrible, because you know it means that Sam is going to become an emotionless murderer when Dean has repaid his debt. But mostly wonderful.

WHY ARE YOU ENCOURAGING ME TO COME UP WITH COMPLETELY HORRIBLE INSANITY?

Seriously, there's something ridiculous about giving a character a random crossover relative, and attaching buckets of angst, incest, and doom to his family because of not-actually-canon incestuous relationship with his not-actually-canon brother.

Mary Winchester was the first woman John fell for that his crazy brother Anton didn't kill, wasn't she?

WAY TO MAKE ME PICTURE PSYCHO KILLER AS THE YELLOW-EYED DEMON.

You know, that'd be horribly perfect. If Anton got himself killed at some point after John left, and got so fixated on John and his family and killing Mary that he came back as the demon plotting to murder Mary, subject everyone else to horrible mind games, and turn Sam evil. And Mary somehow knew about John's creepy-crazy brother, which is why she recognized the Yellow-Eyed Demon.

Which makes the potential for horrible creepy incestuousness in Devil's Trap that much bigger. The demon was inside John, after all, and a lot of people saw the potential for possessed!John to do something with Dean.

ARGH! I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU BRAIN! STOP IT!

DO NOT HATE YOUR BRAIN. Your brain is a glorious thing.

I was thinking of Mary's recognising the Yellow-Eyed Demon as evidence for this theory (if we can call it that), too. Anton is fiercely jealous and nobody is allowed to be more important to John than he was. Which is why he killed his sister-in-law and ruined his nephews' lives and forced his brother to join him in Hell.

WHY DOES THIS MAKE SO MUCH SENSE?

THERE IS NO REMOTELY LOGICAL WAY IN WHICH IT SHOULD MAKE SENSE, AND YET IT DOES! Even his fixation on Sam works; he could easily be pushing for his nephew as some high-ranking demonic whatsit.

I mean if we follow this theory, he'd want John back, Mary out of the way, and one of any number of potential bad outcomes for Sam and Dean. So killing Mary, trying to make one of his nephews powerful and evil like him, making John join him in hell, and treating the other nephew as a disposable pawn to either hurt or manipulate other people with makes perfect sense!

Which, again, is logically impossible.

The things about the military is that they're an easy way to disappear. There's a war on; Vietnam, which eats young men by the thousands. They need new bodies to shove on the front lines. A healthy young man in the neighborhood of adulthood isn't going to face too many questions.

Which is good. John doesn't think anyone would like the answers he has.

He calls himself "Wincester" after his favorite gun. One used for hunting; real hunting, not Anton's...games.

It isn't the only good memory he has of growing up, but it's the only one that feels clean.

---

The thing about Anton is that he doesn't give up.

It takes him some time to find John, yes. Time, effort, and more money than he'd hoped to spend. What he finds is tediously normal; John, calling himself Winchester, with a pretty little wife and son. And another baby on the way.

The wife obviously has to go. The children...Anton doesn't know. Two brothers. That has potential.

He starts making plans for the boys, for what to do when he gets John back; if Mary's out of the way, and there's too much blood for John to cling to normality, then Anton's the only place for him to go. The only one for him to turn to.

Anton's planning this when he's killed, rather stupidly, by a car careening out of control. He's still planning it as he burns in hell.

---

The thing about the lifestyle is that it's so easy to fall back into.

John tries to tell himself that it's different this time. That who you kill matters far more than why you kill. That dragging his boys out on the road for endless travel and hunting won't do to them what it did to Anton.

Some days he even believes it.

Other days he drinks, and watches them too closely. Afraid that by his endless worrying, he'll make his worst fears come true.

---

The thing about Sam is that he has so much potential. He's bright and a good fighter. Just enough selfishness to be useful. With a bit of twisting, he can be pushed into using others to get what he wants.

He's grown smart at Stanford, but also soft. With the pretty little girlfriend, on her way to becoming the pretty little wife. The successful career, and the hand grasping for normal. So much like John.

So much like John.

Anton watches. By now, he's forgotten that his name was ever Anton. He still remembers to watch, though. Particularly Sam. It's important to make Sam into something powerful and violent. Important to make John Winchester hurt. To make John his.

Sam isn't what he's supposed to be, Anton knows. The pretty little girlfriend will have to go.

---

The thing about fatherhood is that John knows he's no good at it. He doesn't have it in him to be what his boys need. He never did. He spent too much time being frightened of demons or...other things.

It made him to hard for children. To unyielding. Too cruel.

But he has one chance; one way to pay for what he's cost his boys. What he's cost Dean, particularly. One hope of proving his love.

It will mean endless pain, but since when is that anything new?

He cuts the deal with the Yellow-Eyed Demon. Then he says goodbye.

Then, when he lands in Hell, he learns.

---

The thing about Hell is, you can never get what you want.

It takes the demon a long time to remember that he was once Anton. A longer time to pry all of the secrets out of John Winchester's soul. To remember why he started this.

By then it doesn't matter. It isn't what he wants anymore. Anything he does to that fluttering soul is flat, hollow, a pathetic echo of what he'd known.

What he remembers now, thanks to John.

It'll be different, he thinks, if he cracks open the gate. If he has the Earth and all flesh to play with. If he can recapture life.

For that he tries to make use of Sam.

Then the little idiot gets himself killed, and Anton is stuck with Jake.

But the thing about Anton is he doesn't give up.

---

The thing about Dean Winchester is that he'll kill any bastard who fucks with his family.

Anton never noticed that. Didn't watch Dean much. He was far too busy watching Sam.

The last thing he notices, before his spirit dissolves, is that Dean Winchester is a surprisingly good shot.

YOU ARE TERRIFYING LEVELS OF BRILLIANT. I love the structure of this. I love John's worry and Anton's calculatingness. I love the awesome.

AMAZING LINES INCLUDE (BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO):

It isn't the only good memory he has of growing up, but it's the only one that feels clean.

The thing about Anton is that he doesn't give up, and the repetition later just makes it even better. And 'The wife obviously has to go'. Obviously. It just highlights the frightening way in which his mind works so perfectly.

Anton's planning this when he's killed, rather stupidly, by a car careening out of control. He's still planning it as he burns in hell. HIS UNSHAKEABLE RESOLVE TERRIFIES ME.

Oh, John's fear that his boys will turn out like Anton. Oh.

Just enough selfishness to be useful. It is so unnerving and so true. And I love 'Sam isn't what he's supposed to be'.

The thing about Hell is, you can never get what you want is just a really great line.

The thing about Dean Winchester is that he'll kill any bastard who fucks with his family.

DEAN. WINCHESTERS. I MAY EXPLODE WITH LOVE.

I am going to beta this, because I would really, really like you to post it somewhere. Please do. It is wonderful.

The things about the military is that they're an easy way to disappear.

'Things' should be 'thing' and 'they're' should be 'it's'.

He calls himself "Wincester" after his favorite gun.

You've missed out the 'h' in 'Winchester'. ~~How very Freudian.~~

It made him to hard for children. To unyielding.

Both instances of 'to' here should be 'too'.

PLEASE SHARE THIS WITH THE WORLD.

Do you think anyone who hasn't been party to this conversation, and followed our bizarre chain of logic will be able to understand this fic at all, though? Because that's what worried me about distributing it to people who are not you.

I mean "Supernatural/No Country for Old Men Crossover" isn't exactly going to make "Anton Chiguer is John Winchester's brother, who had a creepy and obsessive relationship with him before John left" clear.

Maybe you could add a bit to the beginning to make the premise a little clearer? Because this is brilliant, and I really think others should see it.

Hypothetical sex, lol.
I'm totally on board with Sam/Ruby sex (or all three) because in my mind it is WELL twisted incest, because I was totally convinced that Ruby was a Winchester. It makes so much sense! Either that or she's like... the female/demon version of Dean - they are kinda similar.
Ok granted that I may be the only one that thinks this and it's a SERIOUS Epileptic Tree...

Dean and Casey SO had sex. Trufax

...Ruby as a Winchester?

That theory is amazing. And makes me want Sam/Ruby even more, because I am wrong in the head.

The tree may be slightly epileptic, but it is my favourite.

It's mostly because she's blonde and badass, but when she sits down and starts eating Sam's food I was like "omg!" and then starting thinking about all sorts of unwritten fic where she is the long lost Winchester sister, or John and Ellen had an affair or she's Dean as a demon and a woman sent back from another dimension.

Sometimes I'm really glad I don't write half the stuff I think of.

Ruby being genderswapped demonic Dean? Why are you not writing this? It'd be brilliant!

Well--on a passing glance, I notice this comment--and I think: wait, didn't I read that once? And then I remember that I did, sort of, and here it is. (http://community.livejournal.com/inlowercase/729.html)

It exists! And it is wonderful! Thank you, thank you!

*bows* I do what I can, I do what I can.

So have you seen all the episodes right up to "Long Distance Call"? Or am I ahead...

I have indeed! (Wow, you've seen all the episodes already? You're quick.)

Excellent! I think you're about the only person on my flist who watches Supernatural, so it's nice to know I'm not going to be spoiling anyone if I mention something. ^_^
(I watched all of them in less than a week. I really have nothing better to do all day. XD)

I'll confess, I haven't gotten into the idea of Sam/Ruby, because my brain's still in Dean/Every Demon Chick Every, Except Inexplicably Meg mode, so it keeps going Dean/Ruby. But Sam could totally have filthy hypothetical sex with Ruby as well.

I'm still not having any Wincest interest (unless you count, "Will read everything Riona writes, including incest, dog molestation, and zombie porn," as an interest in Wincest). I did, however, come up with the theory that John Winchester's the brother of Anton Chigure, and they had a horribly creepy and twisted far-too-close relationship made of incest and killing things, and John changed his name (to his favorite gun), and joined the Marines to get away from all of that, which is why Sam and Dean don't seem to have any relatives.

Needless to say, I blame you.

I did, however, come up with the theory that John Winchester's the brother of Anton Chigure, and they had a horribly creepy and twisted far-too-close relationship made of incest and killing things

It worries me enormously that I have come up with this before. Picturing the Incestuous Adventures of John and Anton as what made both of them so incurably messed up is the only way I can think of Chigure with some degree of interest (which I just mistyped as 'incest'), rather than paralysing horror.

You should totally write it.

I should write it? It was your idea first!

Besides, it would be a less insane crossover than Silent Hill/High School Musical/Katamari Damacy, and I need to come up with something more insane.

I want Sam/Ruby sex to occur offscreen and Ruby to say 'HYPOTHETICALLY, WERE THERE ANY PERSONS WATCHING OUR LIVES AS IF THEY WERE PART OF A TELEVISION SERIES, I WOULD ASSURE THEM AT THIS POINT THAT THE SEX WE JUST HAD CERTAINLY WAS FILTHY'. It would be marvellous.

I can't decide if that would utterly ruin the mood or if they'd both see that as a completely normal thing to mention.

(unless one of the two is possessed, in which case I am totally up for some wrong and twisted sex),

Is it awful that I had the same line of thought and have a fic idea partially planned out in my mind already? ~~And I was sort of thinking Sam as the possessed one, maybe making the 'wrong and twisted' part worse.~~ I DON'T EVEN WATCH THE SHOW THAT MUCH.

IF BY 'AWFUL' YOU MEAN BRILLIANT. I bet the Winchesters have hideously damaging possessed sex all the time.

If you even show the slightest hint of interest in wrong and twisted possessed Winchester sex, Riona will never let it go. She even tried to turn my Dean/Every Demonic Female Ever, Except Inexplicably Meg kink into a Meg in Sam's Body/Dean non-con plot bunny. Despite there being eleven billion possessed Wincest non-con fic out there already, and me not having any idea on how to make it anything new.

Now that you've out-and-out admitted it, you're doomed.

DO NOT GET ME WRONG; I also totally approve of Dean/Every Demonic Female Ever. Because he cannot stop snogging the demons. It is ridiculous.

I also have a bit of fondness for Meg/Sam.

But yes, the bit about my ATTACKING AND CLINGING TO THE SLIGHTEST MENTION OF POSSESSED WINCHESTER SEX is true.

In my mind, Dean and the Crossroads Demon did it on the dust of the road; he kept urging her to be rougher and rougher, and afterwards drew an odd kind of relief from having scratch marks to show what she'd done to him that night.

Dean and the demon from Sin City (Casey?) did it gently in the middle of the Devil's Trap. He couldn't quite look at her for a while afterwards, because it was too normal, and too good.

Dean and Ruby did it in the back of the Impala, in the parking lot of the motel while Sam slept. There wasn't much talking; Dean didn't want to talk about Sam, and Ruby wouldn't say anything about what being a demon was like.

Dean let Lust have her way with him, then drowned her in a tub of holy water afterwards. He felt weird about that; confused and angry and guilty all at once. He tries not to think about how that happened.

I still can't make Dean and Meg do it in my head. Which is a shame; otherwise I might be able to get a five things fic.

ETA: If anyone can link me to whoever it is that does the really funny and awesome recaps with pictures, I may be able to make it happen after all.

Edited 2008-05-08 01:39 (UTC)

...

Wonderful.

RIONA, I MEANT NOTHING BY IT. I MEAN IT. GO AWAY. ~~Be SATISFIED WITH THE SQUALL PROJECT DRAT IT. Which, by the way, is almost done, finally.~~

THE WRITERS ARE SO ENCOURAGING IT. ALONG WITH THE ENTIRE CAST.

This series is disturbing that almost everybody could have potentially very hot sex with a random cast member. It appeals too much to my inner crack writer.

And Sam will never stop being adorable. Even if he turns into the Antichrist. HE'LL JUST BE AN ADORABLE, GEEKY ANTICHRIST, OKAY?

I think I need tranquilizers

Sam is so cute it's ridiculous. Even in 'All Hell Breaks Loose', he's pulling the trigger and all I can think is 'SAM ♥'. If he becomes the Antichrist, the world is so doomed, because who's going to stand in the way of someone that adorable?

Random Driving Update: having gotten a taste of highway driving, I've found the bit of driving I'm good at. Going fast on windy roads.

Seriously, I'm way better at following a curve than going straight. And even when we got back into town, and my mom told me to slow down on the curves, she followed it with, "That being said, you held the line perfectly."

I blamed Top Gear. She encouraged me to watch more.

Now if I can just work out how to turn every street in existence into a series of high-speed curves, I'm golden.

I LOVE SAM. TOO MUCH. LIKE, WAYYY TOO MUCH.

The incest, however, I do not love. I almost want to read just one really angsty messed up possession involved or SOMETHING Wincest fic just because I can't see myself ever liking it and I'd want to test myself. But I just...I can't. It disturbs me far too much.

I'm too into brother bonds in general and have never been into the incest thing. The brothers from the Outsiders, Chris and Wyatt from Charmed, the damn brothers from the Chron. of Narnia....and everyone writes incest about them AND I DON'T WANNA READ IT AAAAH.

Ahem.

So yea.

Supernatural is pretty sweet.

EVERYONE SHOULD LOVE SAM.

I have such a weird relationship with the incest. On the one hand, I'm certainly interested in the concept. On the other, their brotherly relationship is so wonderful, and I don't really want to change the dynamic by introducing sex into it, especially as it would probably be horribly damaging on both sides (although the 'horribly damaging' thing is part of what makes it so intriguing). I've written a couple of experimental Wincest fics, but I think I'm happier when I'm writing gen for Supernatural. I'm probably not going to stop reading Sam/Dean, though.

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Let It Never Be Said The Romance Is Dead...

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Me getting this out of my system; spoilers through S2

Re: Me getting this out of my system; spoilers through S2

Re: Me getting this out of my system; spoilers through S2

Re: Me getting this out of my system; spoilers through S2

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