Riona (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rionaleonhart) wrote2020-11-24 10:30 pm
rionaleonhart) wrote2020-11-24 10:30 pm
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I Unfairly Pulverise The Competition In Asshole Pageants.
My laptop was on its last legs, so, alas, I've had to replace it. My new laptop is tiny and silver and pissed me off in numerous different ways the moment we met, so I've named it Joshua after the unbearable Joshua Kiryu of The World Ends with You.
This naming was actually a great decision. I love Joshua Kiryu, even though he's the worst, so my laptop now inspires a sort of fondness when it displays the obnoxiousness of its namesake, rather than just rage.
Speaking of The World Ends with You: a sequel's been announced! I'm so excited! It's been thirteen years since the original; I'd given up hope! The original is still one of my all-time favourite games; it's fun, it's stylish and it's got some fascinating character dynamics. I'm looking forward to returning to Shibuya.
In my search for something to follow up Persona 5, I wandered into replaying the first Danganronpa game. It's interesting to revisit it!
I've just finished replaying the second case; there are spoilers up to that point below the cut.
The 11037 clue may be too easy, and Kirigiri holds our hand too much at points, but I still think the first case is a very strong case. Poor Naegi, slowly realising that the victim he cared so much about was planning to commit murder and frame him for it.
I really like that Kirigiri tells Naegi he can move past this after the first trial, and Naegi refuses. He's going to survive these deaths, but he's not going to move past them; they're a part of him now.
I still love Mondo. He's got some very serious faults, but he cares about other people. My weakness for angry, surprisingly softhearted characters who make relentlessly terrible decisions rears its head once again. (See also: Karkat, Kuzuryuu, Dr Cox, Lightning, Tariq.)
I keep finding Mondo and Chihiro hanging out together in free time and going 'aww, that's cute' and then remembering one of them is going to murder the other. These poor doomed kids.
(I notice I've written Naegi and Kirigiri, but Mondo and Chihiro. I'm very inconsistent in whether I refer to the first game's characters by given name or family name.)
You know, across the entire Danganronpa trilogy, I only ship two victims with their killers, and I'm mildly surprised by this.
Ishimaru's such a good kid. Absolutely tactless, but he's so passionate and genuine in his desire to prevent murders. His 'let's build bonds with each other by eating together every morning' idea was an excellent one, and his suggestion to reveal all their secrets to each other really could have prevented the second murder if people had gone along with it.
Mondo reacts with extreme shock on seeing Chihiro's body, which, you know, makes a lot of sense. He's the one who killed Chihiro, but he's just discovered that someone else came along afterwards, discovered the body and went 'lol, I'm going to crucify this corpse and write a message in blood on the wall, what fun'.
I've never been sure of how much I like Togami, but I think I've warmed up to what a colossal arrogant arsehole he is. It possibly helps that he reminds me a tiny bit of Light Yagami, although Light's better at putting on a socially acceptable façade.
I've also never been particularly into Naegi/Togami, but I'll admit that Togami's 'If you get down on your knees and beg, I might even show you myself' line does make some of the appeal apparent. He takes a real interest in Naegi, too, as soon as he registers 'this one made some strong deductions in the trial and is also easily led; he may be useful'.
The official translation of the Hangman's Gambit in the second trial is so bad. Schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder are completely different things!
Yeah, I'm enjoying Togami a lot this time around. He's just so arrogant and ridiculous. I love the way he's just toying with everyone in the second case for no good reason, potentially risking death for everyone, including himself.
Chihiro's story is such an odd one. It's essentially a trans guy's storyline - he's living as a girl, trying to work up the courage to start presenting as male - but in fact he's a cis guy. Trans female Chihiro is a popular interpretation within the fandom, but trans male Chihiro makes a lot more sense to me.
'Chihiro must have trusted whoever he was meeting with very much' noooooooooo
I still have a lot of emotions about this case. The idea of killing someone in a terrible, unthinking moment and instantly regretting it and trying to make it up to them in whatever tiny, inadequate ways are left to you is just so painful.
Mondo didn't try to dispose of the murder weapon. He just moved it, with the rest of the crime scene. He didn't try to remove evidence of his crime; his focus was on removing evidence of Chihiro's secret.
Of course, Mondo didn't confess. But I think, if the trial had started to draw to a close and it was clear he was going to get away with it, if it really sank in that he was going to have the deaths of everyone else on his conscience as well, he might have.
I'm not trying to claim that Mondo's actions weren't wrong. It's bad that he killed Chihiro! Obviously it's bad! It's terrible! But Mondo fascinates me because he does this awful thing and he didn't mean to. I don't think you can call it an accident, exactly, but it's a mistake, and he's in agony over it. I've got such a weakness for characters who make terrible mistakes and are overwhelmed by guilt.
It's sort of hilarious that, in the original Danganronpa, you're not playing the detective character. The detective character's already worked everything out, but she can't be bothered to spell it out for everyone, so that task falls to you. Poor Naegi.
This naming was actually a great decision. I love Joshua Kiryu, even though he's the worst, so my laptop now inspires a sort of fondness when it displays the obnoxiousness of its namesake, rather than just rage.
Speaking of The World Ends with You: a sequel's been announced! I'm so excited! It's been thirteen years since the original; I'd given up hope! The original is still one of my all-time favourite games; it's fun, it's stylish and it's got some fascinating character dynamics. I'm looking forward to returning to Shibuya.
In my search for something to follow up Persona 5, I wandered into replaying the first Danganronpa game. It's interesting to revisit it!
I've just finished replaying the second case; there are spoilers up to that point below the cut.
The 11037 clue may be too easy, and Kirigiri holds our hand too much at points, but I still think the first case is a very strong case. Poor Naegi, slowly realising that the victim he cared so much about was planning to commit murder and frame him for it.
I really like that Kirigiri tells Naegi he can move past this after the first trial, and Naegi refuses. He's going to survive these deaths, but he's not going to move past them; they're a part of him now.
I still love Mondo. He's got some very serious faults, but he cares about other people. My weakness for angry, surprisingly softhearted characters who make relentlessly terrible decisions rears its head once again. (See also: Karkat, Kuzuryuu, Dr Cox, Lightning, Tariq.)
I keep finding Mondo and Chihiro hanging out together in free time and going 'aww, that's cute' and then remembering one of them is going to murder the other. These poor doomed kids.
(I notice I've written Naegi and Kirigiri, but Mondo and Chihiro. I'm very inconsistent in whether I refer to the first game's characters by given name or family name.)
You know, across the entire Danganronpa trilogy, I only ship two victims with their killers, and I'm mildly surprised by this.
Ishimaru's such a good kid. Absolutely tactless, but he's so passionate and genuine in his desire to prevent murders. His 'let's build bonds with each other by eating together every morning' idea was an excellent one, and his suggestion to reveal all their secrets to each other really could have prevented the second murder if people had gone along with it.
Mondo reacts with extreme shock on seeing Chihiro's body, which, you know, makes a lot of sense. He's the one who killed Chihiro, but he's just discovered that someone else came along afterwards, discovered the body and went 'lol, I'm going to crucify this corpse and write a message in blood on the wall, what fun'.
I've never been sure of how much I like Togami, but I think I've warmed up to what a colossal arrogant arsehole he is. It possibly helps that he reminds me a tiny bit of Light Yagami, although Light's better at putting on a socially acceptable façade.
I've also never been particularly into Naegi/Togami, but I'll admit that Togami's 'If you get down on your knees and beg, I might even show you myself' line does make some of the appeal apparent. He takes a real interest in Naegi, too, as soon as he registers 'this one made some strong deductions in the trial and is also easily led; he may be useful'.
The official translation of the Hangman's Gambit in the second trial is so bad. Schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder are completely different things!
Yeah, I'm enjoying Togami a lot this time around. He's just so arrogant and ridiculous. I love the way he's just toying with everyone in the second case for no good reason, potentially risking death for everyone, including himself.
Chihiro's story is such an odd one. It's essentially a trans guy's storyline - he's living as a girl, trying to work up the courage to start presenting as male - but in fact he's a cis guy. Trans female Chihiro is a popular interpretation within the fandom, but trans male Chihiro makes a lot more sense to me.
'Chihiro must have trusted whoever he was meeting with very much' noooooooooo
I still have a lot of emotions about this case. The idea of killing someone in a terrible, unthinking moment and instantly regretting it and trying to make it up to them in whatever tiny, inadequate ways are left to you is just so painful.
Mondo didn't try to dispose of the murder weapon. He just moved it, with the rest of the crime scene. He didn't try to remove evidence of his crime; his focus was on removing evidence of Chihiro's secret.
Of course, Mondo didn't confess. But I think, if the trial had started to draw to a close and it was clear he was going to get away with it, if it really sank in that he was going to have the deaths of everyone else on his conscience as well, he might have.
I'm not trying to claim that Mondo's actions weren't wrong. It's bad that he killed Chihiro! Obviously it's bad! It's terrible! But Mondo fascinates me because he does this awful thing and he didn't mean to. I don't think you can call it an accident, exactly, but it's a mistake, and he's in agony over it. I've got such a weakness for characters who make terrible mistakes and are overwhelmed by guilt.
It's sort of hilarious that, in the original Danganronpa, you're not playing the detective character. The detective character's already worked everything out, but she can't be bothered to spell it out for everyone, so that task falls to you. Poor Naegi.
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Ooh, that did work out well!
Ooh, yes, I see what you mean! A definite type!
Yeah, that would create a shocked reaction on its own.
Yes! Entirely separate things!
Yeah, that works better, and doesn't have the same potential for unfortunate implications of "trying to be brave enough to live as a guy."
Yeah, you can really feel for Mondo. He made one terrible choice in an emotional moment, and is left dealing with the aftermath.
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Yeah, you can really feel for Mondo. He made one terrible choice in an emotional moment, and is left dealing with the aftermath.
The case just breaks my heart. I had such a visceral emotional reaction the first time I realised that the actions Mondo took weren't to obscure evidence; they were to keep the promise he'd made to Chihiro.
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I love Togami. I hate that I love Togami because he's the worst and he has no redeeming qualities and he's terrible in every way, but the heart wants what the heart wants and what the heart wants is, apparently, garbage.
(Also yeah Chihiro is clearly a trans guy's narrative but the fandom is extremely obnoxious about it.)
I've always found it immensely hilarious that Kirigiri is just like "can you solve these murders while I work on the actual mystery kthx".
Speaking of names, I got into DR through Something Awful, where the surnames were mostly the fandom go-to with just a few exceptions, but my friend watched a translated lp that used not just translated names, but localized nicknames. It's completely unimportant but it also drives me up the wall. Who is Hiro? Who is Taka? Who is Byakuya? Anyway.
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This is beautiful. I'm going to embroider it on all my furniture.
(Also yeah Chihiro is clearly a trans guy's narrative but the fandom is extremely obnoxious about it.)
I can understand why Chihiro as a trans girl became such a popular interpretation, but it does bother me when parts of the fandom act like interpreting Chihiro as male is somehow a moral failing.
I've been playing the official localisation with those nicknames, and it is MADDENING. You cannot convince me that formal, traditional, rules-obsessed, formerly friendless Kiyotaka Ishimaru would ever go, 'Oh, call me Taka.'
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On the surface, it makes sense to go "oh he's amab and living as a girl, obviously he's a trans girl!!" but like... you have to change so much about his narrative to make that fit. Even what little I've seen of his socialization scenes has lots of him just quietly hinting that the only reason he was living as a girl was because he didn't feel manly or safe enough to live as a boy, which was what he was. Nothing about his narrative suggested he was even happy as a girl, and the whole point of "coming out" to Mondo was so that he could reach the point of being able to live as a boy. If you make Chihiro a trans girl, you have to remove or rewrite so much of his characterization that you create a completely separate character entirely. What's even the point of that?
Right??? And Togami would never let anyone address him by his first name.
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I remember chapter 2 hit hardest for me, for precisely the reasons you said. Ah, Chihiro. Ah, Mondo. Ah, these poor kids.
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I also experienced it through orenronen's Let's Play/fan translation first, and playing the official release was a very weird experience. It doesn't feel right to see everyone calling each other by first name! (Particularly as, like you, I'd written fanfiction using the conventions of the Let's Play, so I'd really immersed myself in those conventions.)
I'm mostly okay with the official translation, but there are a few aspects that bother me, which I've rambled a bit about over here if you're curious. (I played with Japanese voices, as I was so attached to Ogata's Naegi, so I can't say what the dub is like.)
Out of curiosity, did you ever play 2 and/or V3? Danganronpa 2 is my personal favourite in the series, although it does have some uncomfortable fanservice.
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I followed a bit of 2 as the Let's Plays were being released, but only up to chapter 1 (after which it became harder to keep up with between the hiatuses). I really enjoyed what I saw of it! I already like its cast a lot, and I love, love Gundham and Sonia. They're too adorable.
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Danganronpa is dark, certainly, but I think there's enough humanity in it to keep it from becoming too bleak. It's not a cynical story about terrible people in a terrible world; it's a story about ordinary, mostly good-hearted people in a terrible situation, and I think that makes a big difference to the tone. A 'struggling against adversity' story rather than an 'everything is inherently awful' one.
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the 11037 clue might have been a tad harder for a japanese audience, both because it forms romanized letters and because addressing people by last name is more typical? i'm not sure how much difference it made tbh, it was still probably meant to be an easy clue because it's the Tutorial Trial, but it might not have been *quite* as easy originally?
(I notice I've written Naegi and Kirigiri, but Mondo and Chihiro. I'm very inconsistent in whether I refer to the first game's characters by given name or family name.)
same! and my name choices line up with yours for those 4 (naegi, kirigiri, mondo, chihiro), lol. the localization's nicknames def annoy me tho. and so does togami being called "byakuya." though nothing throws me off quite like komaeda being "nagito."
(tho i did write a komaeda fic recently where i used first names, including nagito, because it was for an exchange and that's what the recipient wanted.)
He takes a real interest in Naegi, too, as soon as he registers 'this one made some strong deductions in the trial and is also easily led; he may be useful'.
yes, this is part of what interests me about Togami and Naegi's interactions! god togami is such a dick, but i greatly enjoy him.
also god yeah the "Schizophrenia" hangman's gambit is terrible. it's not DID! it's completely different!
the Chihiro thing is interesting. the friend of mine who is playing DR for the first time is a trans woman, and she definitely read Chihiro as a trans girl? her main point was that "cis people don't usually see 'present as the other binary gender' as an appealing solution to their life problems" and tbh, she's not wrong about that. on the other hand, Alter Ego refers to Chihiro with male pronouns, which to me seems indicative of a preference, sooo...
yeah. it doesn't seem like a Cis Thing To Do (which i guess may be why i've also seen nonbinary Chihiro headcanons floating around), but chihiro seemed to indicate wanting to present male again and alter ego used male pronouns for chihiro... yeah. idk.
that said tho, the *way* chihiro's gender was revealed in chapter 2? super gross. instead of just explaining it, Kirigiri hints that they should check Chihiro's corpse, and Sakura inspects the body closely and then reacts with her most extremely shocked/horrified face. big, big yikes. i didn't remember how bad it was before now (prob bc in 2013 i didn't yet realize i was trans.)
Of course, Mondo didn't confess. But I think, if the trial had started to draw to a close and it was clear he was going to get away with it, if it really sank in that he was going to have the deaths of everyone else on his conscience as well, he might have.
interesting! yeah, if it had come down to it, i think he might have.
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In my head, the Danganronpa 2 characters are referred to almost entirely by surname, the Danganronpa V3 characters are referred to entirely by first name, and the first game's characters are a terrible mix of the two. It's very messy and means it can be hard to remember which names to use when writing fanfiction (particularly as I use orenronen's conventions when writing for the first two games and the official localisation's conventions when writing for V3).
god togami is such a dick, but i greatly enjoy him.
He's so much more fun than I remembered! This replay is also reminding me of my fondness for the 'tell them, Naegi' meme. Goddammit, Togami.
The way Chihiro is handled by the game is definitely a bit of a disaster. My interpretation of Chihiro is basically 'a cis male character who very strongly invites AUs in which he's a trans male character', but I can understand why people interpret him as a trans girl or as nonbinary.
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my own personal name usage falls along these lines:
First names: Chihiro, Mondo, Sakura, Celeste, Mukuro, Junko, Leon, Hifumi*, Sayaka*
Last names: Kirigiri, Togami, Naegi, Asahina, Ishimaru, Hagakure, Fukawa
*I think I used to use their last names more, but (possibly as a result of exposure to the localization) I’ve started thinking of these two more by first names. I also sometimes think of Naegi as Makoto, I think.
(Side note: I almost forgot Fukawa existed when making the above list.)
For SDR2 I did get used to a lot of the first names, except Komaeda. He is always Komaeda. For V3 I’m familiar with both sets of names. I do usually write with last names these days (tho if you look in my fic history, there’s a variety of different approaches. I at least keep it consistent within each fic, lol.)
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I notice that both of us refer to all the survivors by surname! Possibly because they were around for longer and we were therefore exposed to their surnames more in orenronen's Let's Play.
I also sometimes think of Naegi as Makoto, I think.
I've always very much thought of him as Naegi, and then earlier today I was working on a fic and accidentally wrote 'Makoto's room' and was SHOCKED by myself. He's still Naegi to me, but apparently the official localisation's managed to creep into my brain a little!
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This is so interesting! For me, it’s Nagito and it’s always Nagito - unless we're not talking about the character, but the 'tumblr sexyman' meme of sorts he somehow turned into, in which case, yes, it's absolutely Komaeda. I can't use the two names interchangeably, since I find they evoke wildly different concepts.
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Leon's crush on Sayaka is blatant and cute and I ship them a tad. Actually, I ship all the Trigger Happy victims with their killers (I have the softest spot for Celeste/Hifumi), so it surprises me that I only ship one of the victims in Goodbye Despair with their killer.
I too am very weak for easily angered but soft-hearted characters who make terrible choices - especially if they end up feeling gravely remorseful once they realize the severity of their choices. What happened between Mondo, Chihiro, and Daiya (and also Ishimaru, to an extent), was awful. Chapter Two did get to me! It would be one of my favorite chapters were it not for the whole Genocide Jack spin, which was such an unenjoyable distraction and arguably a waste of time. /end rant
His 'let's build bonds with each other by eating together every morning' idea was an excellent one [...]
Yes! And in all honesty, this idea of Ishimaru's ^ is exactly why I've personally never had a problem with his asking the others to call him "Taka" - it fits with the part of his character that is enthusiastic about creating bonds with the others. Ishimaru may be a stickler for rules and regulations, but even before the killing school life begins, he displays a passionate interest in teamwork and cooperation. I've always read his insistence on having the others call him 'Taka' as his way of fostering a bond between him and them - a bond which would encourage them to get along with him and therefore engender teamwork. Ishimaru is absolutely the kind of person who would recognize the social power of nicknames, in much the same way he recognizes that eating breakfast together creates a bond between people. So I personally have never had a problem with the nickname "Taka".
On the subject of names... I absolutely get why folks prefer to call Byakuya "Togami", but I for one can't call him that, since I associate the name "Togami" more with the corporation than with Byakuya himself. Likewise, I prefer to think of the Ultimate Detective as Kyoko rather than Kirigiri, as my brain's already assigned the name "Kirigiri" to her father, the headmaster.
Overall, I like the official localization of the first game, but I will not hesitate to fault it for that particular round of Hangman's Gambit is terrible (no, schizophrenia is not DID!). I also found Makoto's tendency to use "me" rather than "I" (i.e. "Me and [other character] did [X]") super annoying. But the localization of the second game was a significant improvement.
I've never considered that Chihiro's story might be read as a trans male's story, but thinking about it now, this interpretation makes sense, too!
I've never been sure of how much I like Togami, but I think I've warmed up to what a colossal arrogant arsehole he is. It possibly helps that he reminds me a tiny bit of Light Yagami, although Light's better at putting on a socially acceptable façade.
You're not alone. Byakuya's been reminding me of Light since we were first introduced to him. ("He's Light Yagami with glasses," I wrote in my notebook, when I first played Trigger Happy Havoc. "He's a megane'd Yagami.") I'm so inclined to think this was intentional; not only does he look like Light, and sometimes acts like him, too, but their family names sound so similar. I mean. Togami? Yagami? I mean, really.
I think the second game's lack of any detective character might be another reason why I prefer it to THH! In Trigger Happy, you have Makoto scrambling to figure out what Kyoko has already figured out; but in the second game, everyone's working together to work everything out, and I love that.
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I've since considered Sayaka one of the stronger characters in Trigger Happy Havoc, and I'm still disappointed by how little screen-time she ended up having.
She's such an interesting character, especially considering how little time she has to establish herself. I love that the game sets up the player to expect certain things of her and then absolutely obliterates those expectations.
Actually, I ship all the Trigger Happy victims with their killers (I have the softest spot for Celeste/Hifumi), so it surprises me that I only ship one of the victims in Goodbye Despair with their killer.
Sakura/herself: the truest pairing. What's your killer/victim pair in Goodbye Despair? (I suppose I do ship Komaeda/Nanami; I forgot about that when I said I only shipped two victims with their killers! But, then again, I ship Komaeda with everyone.)
I've personally never had a problem with his asking the others to call him "Taka" - it fits with the part of his character that is enthusiastic about creating bonds with the others.
This is actually a really good point! Thank you; you've made that nickname much more acceptable to me.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the similarities between Togami and Light! I would laugh extremely hard if it turned out that Light actually inspired Togami.
but in the second game, everyone's working together to work everything out, and I love that.
It's so good! I think the introduction of agreement points in the second game was a fantastic addition; it really helped the trials feel more collaborative.
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As for my killer/victim pair in Goodbye Despair: it's the surprisingly unpopular Mikan/Hiyoko! But I was shipping them long before the events of Chapter Three, and actually in all honesty I tend not to think of them as a killer/victim ship, but as a classmate/classmate ship, since it's the pre-Chapter Three, non-despair version of Mikan that I like shipping with Hiyoko - not despair!Mikan.
I love that you ship Nagito with everyone, and I empathize, to an extent. I myself ship Hajime with everyone. With literally everyone; I don't think there's a single Danganronpa character I wouldn't gladly see Hajime on the other side of.
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Some tags I added to a piece of Koizumi fanart I reblogged on Tumblr a few years back:
#(i just tried to work out whether there are any dangan ronpa characters i don't ship hinata with
#the answer is no
#i ship hinata with literally everyone
#but especially koizumi
#and also especially komaeda)
(I think I also have to add Kuzuryuu to the list of characters I especially ship him with.)
What I'm saying is that you are not at all alone in your Hinata-shipping habits! I basically went into Danganronpa 2 going 'you know, there are a few Danganronpa pairings I vaguely like, but Naegi/Ikusaba's the only thing I really ship,' and then I came out of the second game staggering under the weight of thirty new pairings.
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I like my Trigger Happy Havoc ships just fine, but in each of the Danganronpa pairings that my heart is really ardent for, there's at least one Goodbye Despair character.