rionaleonhart: final fantasy x-2: the sun is rising, yuna looks to the future. (all i wanted)
Riona ([personal profile] rionaleonhart) wrote2008-11-09 09:34 pm

You Must Have The Will.


Freaking 'Lazarus Rising', forcing me to say 'the first episode of the fourth season' every time I refer to it in a non-spoilery zone. OOH, THE TITLE OF THE EPISODE IS 'LAZARUS RISING'. I WONDER WHAT HAPPENS IN IT? Seriously, Supernatural. Seriously.

Anyway. Perhaps it was not, in fact, that spoilery, because maybe

maybe

MAYBE DEAN HAS BEEN IN HELL FOR THE WHOLE OF THIS SEASON

AND THAT IS WHY MOST OF IT HAS BEEN FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW

AND HE'LL SNAP BACK ONTO HIS MEATHOOKS AT ANY MOMENT AND A YELLOW-EYED VISION OF SAM WILL LAUGH AT HIM AND SAY 'OH, DEAN, YOU REALLY THOUGHT YOU HAD ESCAPED?'

IT COULD ACTUALLY MAKE 'IT WAS ALL A DREAM' COOL

...er, of course that scene in 'Metamorphosis' in which Dean is unconscious would be sort of problematic there. Never mind. And there are only so many episodes you can have before an 'it was all a dream' reveal, no matter how awesome, would just invalidate too much.

I like to think that at least some of Dean's time in Hell was spent with Hell tricking him into believing he'd escaped and then dragging him back into reality, and so Dean still hasn't quite accepted the idea that maybe he's really out of there this time. Because it is fun to be cruel to Dean. I'M SORRY, DEAN. You know I love you. It is not my fault that you are immensely tormentable.

(I also like to think that sometimes Hell threw Dean into Silent Hill. And then reunited him with an illusion of Sam, and then killed that Sam viciously as an unforeseen but theoretically foreseeable consequence of something Dean did.

OKAY, DEAN, YOUR LITTLE FACE IN MY MIND IS MAKING ME FEEL REALLY GUILTY FOR MAKING AN ENTRY ENTIRELY ABOUT HORRIBLE THINGS HAPPENING TO YOU. I... also hope... Hell... gave him... cake?)

Speaking to [livejournal.com profile] amy_wolf has made me wonder whether Sam is still in a state of cannot-function-without-Dean or whether the months of, you know, functioning without Dean have left him capable of surviving without his brother. The thought that Sam can live without Dean actually upsets me. SAM, THE IDEA OF BEING ABLE TO LIVE AND BREATHE AND EAT AND THINK WHEN YOUR BROTHER ISN'T THERE SOUNDS DANGEROUSLY HEALTHY TO ME. YOU GO BACK TO BEING TERRIFYINGLY CO-DEPENDENT RIGHT NOW.

[identity profile] dracothelizard.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:12 pm (UTC)(link)
It would work with the time travel one as well, because Dean only discovers bad things:
- Mary didn't want her kids to be hunters.
- The YED was responsible for killing his grandparents and possessing his granddad.
- Mary made a deal with the YED.

NOTHING ABOUT THAT IS UPLIFTING AT ALL.

Also, did you see the Silent Hill moment in Top Gear? DAMN YOU STATIC.

[identity profile] dracothelizard.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:29 pm (UTC)(link)
On the other hand, maybe it just means you've got REALLY good Radio One reception in Silent Hill?

[identity profile] dorcas-gustine.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I WANT THIS TO BE CANON! CAN I HAS CANON NAO?

[identity profile] calamitysxchild.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:29 pm (UTC)(link)
....Can we get married?

IT COULD ACTUALLY MAKE 'IT WAS ALL A DREAM' COOL

YES INDEED.

Too bad the writers tend to use other bad cliches that DON'T end up being cool.

But still.

let's get married and play classic rock and clips from the show at the reception. yea?

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:38 pm (UTC)(link)
i'll be the caterer! pie for everyone.

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I've heard that theory a lot, about Dean dreaming all of this! I can't get into it! Don't you think eight episodes is a little much?

And, Dean was totally torturing Sam in Hell. That's why he won't talk about it. He doesn't want Sam to know.

tricking him into believing he'd escaped and then dragging him back into reality
Have you seen The Descent?

x helen

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:05 pm (UTC)(link)
yes, it's distressing, that's why it's so plausible! aren't we all about the distress in this day and age? supernatural introduced me to believable angst.

the descent is the horror film with the ending to rock all other endings. i won't spoil it. i'll just say GO RENT IT RIGHT NOW.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I would have gone along with three episodes of it not being real, but at this point, it's too much.

Demons screwed with Dean's mind until he flew into a rage and attacked something, but it turned out to be Sam, and every time he stopped trying to hurt it, it was a demon trying to kill him, and every time he started, it was Sam again?

[identity profile] dracothelizard.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:56 pm (UTC)(link)
That was such a good mindfuck ending!

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:02 pm (UTC)(link)
BEST HORROR MOVIE ENDING EVER.
better than hostel. better than hostel II.
better than saw. better than saw II. or III. or IV. or V.
better than dying breed. (but let's face it, anything is better than that ending)
better than anything.

[identity profile] dracothelizard.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, it was definitely better than Hostel and Saw, because Hostel and Saw were all about LOL LET'S TORTURE SOME PEOPLE FOR NO APPARENT REASON and seriously, didn't Jigsaw die permanently in 2 or 3 and what the hell is up with all his apprentices, seriously?

I haven't seen Dying Breed, though.

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
BLASPHEMER. hostel is amazing. eli roth is incredible. (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=18674796&albumID=804367&imageID=28426925)

i only saw dying breed because it had leigh whannell in it, and i've loved him for so long. he wrote saw! he's adam! and he's from melbourne, and we gotta support the local people, you know.
i don't know if dying breed is being released internationally. i hope so. only because i want people to see leigh with his original accent.

jigsaw died in III, and IV took place at the same time as III. and V was a flashback to before II.
but yeah, he's been dead all this time.

[identity profile] dracothelizard.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 10:37 am (UTC)(link)
And I have seen Hostel, but it was a bit like those Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies. Oh look, group of friends in an area strange to them! Oh look, group of people catching passersby for hours of torture and killing fun! Except that with Hostel the main guy escapes and gets some revenge, whereas in TCM the people who get away always get caught again because the police or the lorry driver who is passing by is In On It.

"jigsaw died in III, and IV took place at the same time as III. and V was a flashback to before II.
but yeah, he's been dead all this time."

That sounds needlessly complicated :/

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 11:18 am (UTC)(link)
it is needlessly complicated. understandable, as III is the last saw movie that whannell had any part in writing. it's a money-making franchise, pretty much. it's a shame because the first one was about true horror. making awful choices, being trapped, turning on each other. they tried to duplicate that last one in II but it sort of spiralled out of control.

i loved hostel because it was the first crazy horror movie i had ever seen. like, obscene torture horror. there are some parts that just kill me. like when paxton is talking to that crazy guy (who ends up blowtorching the japanese girl), and the guy asks, 'should i do it slow, or make it quick?'
and paxton stares at him for ages and finally says 'make it quick'.
or when paxton says 'well i'm a vegetarian and it's not my nature'.
actually, when paxton does anything in that movie. jay hernandez is great.

x

[identity profile] the-wanlorn.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:40 pm (UTC)(link)
THAT

WOULD

BE

AMAZING.

I DEMAND THAT THIS BECOME CANON OH MY GOD THAT WOULD BE BRILLIANT AND WONDERFUL AND HILARIOUS

[identity profile] the-wanlorn.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:47 pm (UTC)(link)
It would utterly destroyDean. Which, uh, is, uh, hilarious. D: I THINK THAT SENTENCE RIGHT THAR SAYS A LOT ABOUT ME D:

[identity profile] th-esaurus.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know why you stoically refuse to adopt the far easier (episode number)x(season number) format of referring to episodes. Or even shorten 'season four' to 'S4'. SO STOIC.

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
four oh one? you could avoid digits that way.

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
oh, i don't know. i'm sure we can all agree on "you're" and "your". went to a play last night, and their program had messed up the two. i mean. HOW.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)
You just made me really want to read fic where you send Dean to Silent Hill now. Please?

And Hell giving Dean cake just makes me think of Portal and 'the cake is a lie'. Which also doesn't go well.

It's possible that Sam in not acting dangerously co-dependent because no one's trying to take Dean away, if that makes you feel better. But he does seem disturbingly able to not freak out when Dean nearly gets killed by things.

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:19 pm (UTC)(link)
don't forget the hand-holding in bobby's kitchen in 4.02.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
True. Mostly I was thinking of 'Yellow Fever', where Dean managed to catch a fatal ghost disease, and Sam was all 'Dude, you're a clue! This is awesome!'

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)
oh i know. "hey you just vomited up a woodchip, the wood must have really scratched your throat up. you must be bleeding from the lungs, huh? let's go to the wood mill!"

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-09 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Aw! That's okay. I'll stick to hoping.

Yeah, it was unsettling. He was all 'Yay, you're a clue!' or 'Magic says that you're kind of a dick,' or all those other things where I'd expect a bit of "You can't die! I just got you back!"

I did love that Dean actually hallucinated, "You're dying. Again. Loser." It's perfect!

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-10 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
Stupidest plotbunny ever:

Uriel is secretly Sam's father. Mary, not being normally inclined to cheat on John, slept with an angel in a desperate and misguided attempt to get around the deal with the Yellow-Eyed Demon (her idea being that a half-angelic kid would somehow counteract the demon blood, and if she was already pregnant with Sam, she wouldn't have a different kid for him to mess with). Uriel, out of guilt, gets all "Rawr, mudmonkeys! Humans suck!" The YED is all "Ooh, Nephilim!" because Nephilim are what happens in the Bible when angels impregnate human women, and theologically, they're bad (and incredibly tall). Hence the current angelic intervention. Uriel and Castiel know Sam's a Nephilim, in addition to having demon-blood, but they don't know he's Uriel's son.

On a scale of one to Clarkson, how stupid is that?

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 11:21 am (UTC)(link)
and john and bobby have an mpreg child together.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
And that child was Delaware Springer.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 09:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I had a moment of "Oops, incest! Wait, no!" It would still be tremendously creepy.

And I'm not telling wanttobeatree my theory. She'd leave out the 'and Uriel is Sam's father' theory, and go for incest.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 09:32 pm (UTC)(link)
I just noticed. You're very evil you know that?

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-11 09:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I fear I don't have enough. There may not be enough icons in the world!

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 12:01 am (UTC)(link)
who then has a child with ruby.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 04:26 am (UTC)(link)
And that child winds up being a devout Christian who lets himself be possessed by Castiel? It works if you allow for the angelic time-travel thing.

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 08:21 am (UTC)(link)
after all, ruby was around "when the plague was big" as she said.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 09:59 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah. You only need the time-travel so Delaware's kid can be old enough to be Castiel's body.

So Sam's parents are Mary and Uriel, Delaware's are John and Bobby, Dean's are Mary and John (just for contrast), and Castiel's body is the child of Ruby and Delaware.

And then Dean marries his car, so he can go "I know there's not going to be any accidental incest here!"

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 10:17 am (UTC)(link)
dean's a mecaphile, now? the madness, it does not end.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually, that may be the sanest bit. Dean being in love with his car is practically canon, after all.

[identity profile] iwrotethissong.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 06:40 pm (UTC)(link)
imagine their wedding night.

[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I am. :D