I Want To See The Zoo, She Said, I Want To See The Zoo.

[rionaleonhart]

WHILST I'M BEING INSECURE ABOUT MY WRITING: for as long as I can remember, I have used "double quotation marks" for speech in fiction and 'single quotation marks' for all other purposes. No style guide will recommend this: in British publishing convention, single quotes are used for all purposes, including speech, with speech within speech the only context in which double quotes are used; in American publishing convention, the situation is reversed. Does this inconsistency bother you? (Alternative question: do you have similar stylistic quirks?) I just think there's something quite nice about drawing a visual distinction between speaking and 'setting a phrase aside'. If there are two different types of quotation mark, why not put them to use?


Regarding Supernatural: I rewatched 'Fresh Blood' a little while ago, and it reminded me of how awesome Bela can be. I love that she actually seems surprised and a little upset that Dean is so angry with her for telling a murderous madman where to find them. HONESTLY, DEAN, YOU'RE SO OVERSENSITIVE. And then she helps them track him down, because, hey, she didn't know Dean was going to be so unreasonable about the whole thing. I love her.

HERE IS SOMETHING I WOULD LOVE TO SEE: a rewritten Twilight, with Bela in the role of Bella. Edward may be ridiculously strong and fast, but if he can't hear Bela's thoughts he's doomed. She will seduce him, use him shamelessly and then run off with his sister to form an amazing con artist duo. It would be pretty great. And at least Bela's unsympathetic aspects are intentional, unlike those of Bella 'Stupid Unattractive Humans With Their Stupid Being Nice To Me' Swan.

(Jo is welcome to join Bela and Alice in their con-artistry.)

(Also, Ruby can flit between the three of them, although I have not yet decided whether she would assist with the cons or whether she would ruin them for her own amusement by possessing the team members at inopportune moments.)

Comments

[timydamonkey.livejournal.com]

THIS COULD POSSIBLY BE THE BEST CROSSOVER IDEA EVER.

Also, I pretty much do what you do re: double quotes and single quotes. I don't consider it an issue so much.

Deliberately compounding my thoughts on the matter this time. :P

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

Same here regarding your single vs. double quotes. I wonder if it's one particular publisher's style convention in the UK, because I've certainly seen a more flexible attitude towards the use of quotes in speech in some books I've read.

[rionaleonhart]

I am immensely relieved to find out that others use quotation marks in the same way. It's something I've always vaguely worried about. (But it makes so much sense!)

And I am glad you like the crossover idea! Now write it.

[th-esaurus.livejournal.com]

True fact: I will not read a book (or a fic) if the speech is given in single quotation marks. It just peeves me. I do enjoy writing where the author has made a stylistic choice not to use any kind of quotation marks to signify speech, though.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

True enough. It's particularly intriguing to see it rendered in the French style, with indents and dashes and whatnot. It becomes more about the speech and less about the speaker, strangely.

[rionaleonhart]

Will you seriously not read a book if the speech is in single quotation marks? Do you import all of your books from America? I just took a random sample of ten novels, and all but one used single quotation marks for speech. Single quotes have the 'wait, is that a closing inverted comma or just an apostrophe?' problem, but beyond that they don't bother me on paper.

Single quotation marks in fic do strike me as a bit odd, though, perhaps because I've come to expect a certain type of punctuation on the screen.

(I always use single quotes when I'm writing by hand, but I suspect that may largely be due to laziness.)

[timydamonkey.livejournal.com]

I once read a fic where the speech was signified like this:

-Speech goes here. Action goes here. -More speech by the same speaker here.

It was really strange, but it actually just made me love the fic all the more as I really liked the very, very unusual style in which it was written.

[make-a-move.livejournal.com]

I've always used double speech marks for speech, and single for other use. I never knew it was any different!

[rionaleonhart]

WE ARE THE PUNCTUATION REVOLUTION.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

I am ashamed to say that I use quotation marks rather indiscriminately. Double ones for speech, always, but for any other purpose I switch between single, double, italics, underlining, bolding, blockquoting, capslock or no indication at all depending on mood. Which I'm sure annoys the piss out of people.

[rionaleonhart]

Stay quiet! People won't notice! Well, unless you switch between multiple ways of formatting the same thing in the same, say, paragraph. (Since beginning my course, I've been flipping helplessly between single quotes (what I used previously) and italics (the standard formatting in books on linguistics) when I want to indicate that I'm talking about a word as a word. Do I say that Americans say 'pants' instead of 'trousers' or that Americans say pants instead of trousers? I DON'T KNOW.)

[pornontoast.livejournal.com]

I was taught in primary school to use double marks for speech and only realised that it was seen as wrong a couple of years ago...

[rionaleonhart]

I think I may have been taught that, as well. At least, when I look back at my writing from my primary school days, there are double marks there, and I don't know why I'd use double quotation marks for speech now when all the books around me use singles otherwise.

[nomelon.livejournal.com]

I always, always used single marks for speech and double marks for a quote etc within a sentence. Until fanfic. I got told by three betas in a row that it was terribly off-putting, and far too British, so I made myself make the switch to double marks for speech and now it looks really funny to me the original way round.

Yet another fandom intrusion into my life.

[rionaleonhart]

Awww, that's a bit sad. We British writers are not allowed to use the punctuation to which we are exposed in published works! Cruel, oppressive Internet! You can make us use double quotation marks, America, but nothing will ever convince me that "So you call these 'trousers?'" makes more sense than "So you call these 'trousers'?"

(Actually, single quotation marks for speech in fanfiction look odd to me as well. I'm just so used to double quotation marks when I'm reading something on a screen.)

I think this is my only icon with a book in it, so it'll do for a comment about writing.

[dracothelizard.livejournal.com]

"I have used "double quotation marks" for speech in fiction and 'single quotation marks' for all other purposes. No style guide will recommend this: in British publishing convention, single quotes are used for all purposes, including speech, with speech within speech the only context in which double quotes are used; in American publishing convention, the situation is reversed. Does this inconsistency bother you?"

I do the same thing! I wonder if it's something I unconsciously picked up from fanfiction? Because I did it even in my first piece of English fanfiction, and I also did it in my first piece of Dutch fanfiction, which I wrote before I even really knew what fanfic was. Although I did read Savage Garden RPF on forums before I really knew what fanfic was, so maybe I picked up the double quotation mark thing for speech from that.

The adventures of Bela are a version of Twilight I would actually read!

Re: I think this is my only icon with a book in it, so it'll do for a comment about writing.

[littlemoose.livejournal.com]

I've always done the same thing! I think it's because the 'learn to write' books we had in primary school were, for some reason, American...

[tigriswolf]

That idea? Is golden. Now I want it so bad.

[rionaleonhart]

It would be wonderful! I am now wondering how Edward would respond to being so thoroughly betrayed by the love of his unlife.

[pointytilly.livejournal.com]

I use double for everything except for quotes within quotes/within dialogue, where I use single. Like: "Bob's claiming you got drunk and kept yelling 'I am not the walrus' all last night," Alice said, raising an eyebrow. "What's up with that, Fred?"

I have no idea if that's proper, but it works. I don't really notice different systems as long as they stay consistent and dialogue has something around it. My eyes aren't the best in the world, and I easily skip around/get lost without some kind of dialogue indicator (or at least italics).

My personal quirk is always typing two spaces after a period. Never mind it doesn't even show in HTML unless you do dirty things with non-breaking spaces, I...can't stand not to.

[rionaleonhart]

That's the typical American publishing style, which makes sense, as you are American (er, I think. I apologise if I am mistaken).

My mum also inserts two spaces after a full stop. Do you know why you do that? If I recall correctly (and I may well be very wrong), the 'two spaces after a full stop' rule originated from use of the typewriter, because one space wasn't very clear when all the letters were the same width. Did you ever use a typewriter? Were you just taught to insert two spaces?

[nevcolleil.livejournal.com]

Oh, this has to be written! :D Hee hee. Right on about Bella, too. It really irritates me about her. I suppose she's meant to be viewed as a kind, good person. But a lot of the the time it just seems like she's too apathetic to bother being mean.

[rionaleonhart]

I do not quite understand what Meyer was trying to do with Bella. She just doesn't care about anyone who is not some sort of perfect sparkly supernatural creature. This is not a likeable trait!

[derryderrydown.livejournal.com]

"double quotation marks" for speech in fiction and 'single quotation marks' for all other purposes.

YES, YES, THIS IS WHAT I DO. I was taught it at school and I will NEVER believe that single quotation marks should be used for speech.

[rionaleonhart]

Ooh, you were actually taught to use double quotes for speech and single quotes otherwise? Perhaps I am wrong in believing that it is not a standard punctuational style.

(Er, edited because my icon made me look sarcastic.)

[cryforthemoon.livejournal.com]

I like the double quotation marks for regular speech; I feel it makes more of a distinction.

[rionaleonhart]

I prefer double quotation marks for speech in fanfiction and singles for speech in handwriting or published novels, but I think that's just because it's what I'm used to in each case. If it's not speech, though, doubles look incredibly odd to me no matter what the format.

[dracothelizard.livejournal.com]

When I did my master's thesis I did double quotation marks for quoted bits, except if I did indents for long quotes, I didn't do any quotation marks around those because the indents already set them apart from my own text.

[justspaz.livejournal.com]

I've always been in the same way as you with quotations. There is something that just screams speech with "" and other with ''. However, I never actually notice in fiction, and didn't even know that was how quotes were done.

Because I am slow.

[rionaleonhart]

That's interesting, because I've noticed that most people who've said they use that mismatched system have been British. I don't know whether that's because Americans are less likely to be exposed to single quotes than British people are to be exposed to doubles or just because I have more British people than Americans on my flist.

[nixwilliams.livejournal.com]

i also use "these for speech or longer quotes in essays" and i use 'these for thoughts (at least i used to) and for single word/two word phrase quotes'. we are right, don't worry. the rest of the world is crap.

my stylistic quirks are mostly to do with in-text citation and reference lists, so i won't bore you with the details. however, i always double space after the end of a sentence (although the intert00bs tends to smoosh it back into one space).

[amy-wolf.livejournal.com]

I like your style. It's American-friendly.

I don't tend to notice single versus double, really. I notice the French style, but I can work with it. I'll only read stuff where speech is either not marked or marked in a a gimmicky style if it's clever and flows logically with the story (like "The Butcher Boy" where it's supposed to come off like the entire books one Giant Rambly Insane Monologue Of Doom).

I approve of Bela and Alice and Ruby, and even Jo (not enthusiastic about her, but I don't mind her). I also approve of Bela and Alice and Ruby and even Jo With Added Femmeslash.

I'm still trying to work out why Alice would meet the Top Gear Trio, although I'm convinced she'd drive Jeremy up the wall in a hilarious fashion (an attractive woman who likes Porsches and blurts out things like "No, I'm sorry, you're not going to get anywhere flirting with me. But don't worry, you'll be able to get into bed with your two friends as soon as you stop repressing and actually ask. I haven't got an exact timeline on that, so you may want to hurry things along by just asking now.")

[sashwizzled.livejournal.com]

I do exactly what you do - with the double and single quotes. I think it's a mixture between the American stuff I read on the internet and the British books I read coming together in a vaguely logical way. XD

[rionaleonhart]

I'm surprised by the number of people who do it, considering it doesn't actually show up in published works. Clearly, our cut-up-and-stitched-together punctuation is superior to any generally accepted system.

[bubbles-san.livejournal.com]

Bella 'Stupid Unattractive Humans With Their Stupid Being Nice To Me' Swan That's her Indian name, yes.

I want to rewrite Twilight with Jeff and Neville as Edward and Bella, but I don't think I have the attention span for it.

As to writing quirks, I almost always stick commas and periods outside of single quotes ('like so'.) and I have no idea why. It's not grammatically correct, and it doesn't even look right, but I always do it. Maybe when I get published I'll make my editor leave it in, so that it's something that's mine and only mine alone. Another thing I do is use 'o' for '0'. (See? I did it there, too, without even meaning to.) That's intentional, because I did it as a typo once (they're right next to each other on the keyboard) and I thought it looked neat so I kept it.

And because I have to ask, where's your subject line from this time?

[bubbles-san.livejournal.com]

And because I got distracted and forgot:

"speech"
'quotes within quotes, titles'
titles. I actually was taught a very specific way to write different titles in school, none of which involved italics, and when I asked Ms. English why, she said, "Because you can't write in italics by hand", which confused me, because I can. And often do. (it's not that hard.)
(thouhts within a thought)

[vzg.livejournal.com]

Does this inconsistency bother you?

Yes! I do not know why my country didn't go, "Oh, so that's the way we've been doing it? Great, let's do it the same way." But alas, it is the one I must use. (Also, I totally hadn't realized that was the accepted British format and now feel dumb. I've only seen it a few times... and actually I've known a few times that the people doing it weren't British — but anyway, I had no idea. SADFACE.)

Also, I probably over-use out-of-dialogue quotation marks like I overuse italics, which probably turns a lot of people away from my writing.

[vzg.livejournal.com]

ALTHOUGH— I want to say that the only way it really bothers me is with quotes within dialogue. Mostly with double quotes (and mostly because I haven't seen that with single quotes). I feel like the quote is ending and then OH WAIT IT ISN'T and probably some other grammar stuff that makes my head spin but I don't know the name to. Or something.

[wolfenkahlon.livejournal.com]

"I've always done speech like this." He said.

And thought like this. He thought.

With single quotes for certain... 'emphasis' on words, and for indirect quotes.

Except with using italics to quote chunks of stuff from posts on the internet when I'm going to be replying below.

[rionaleonhart]

Is the "I've always done speech like this." He said as opposed to "I've always done speech like this," he said intentional? Because, technically, it should be the latter. (I wrote a quick guide to punctuating dialogue a few years ago, if you're interested. Why, yes, this is the sort of thing I do for fun.)