rionaleonhart | Actors Are Not Your Posable Dolls: A Rant.

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Actors Are Not Your Posable Dolls: A Rant.

Hello! First, a call for help: are you from the East Midlands? Are you aged between eighteen and twenty-five? If so, and if you have the time, please consider popping over here to help

sparklenight, my fellow English Language student, with her dissertation on accent features of the East Midlands. It would be extremely kind of you.

And now, alas, although I generally try to keep this journal a place of happiness, I have to take a moment to express how appalled I am by the way in which certain parts of the Supernatural fandom are reacting to the news that Jared Padalecki and Genevieve Cortese are engaged.

DEAR SUPERNATURAL FANDOM: PLEASE STOP BEING INSANE. I cannot believe some of the comments I have seen on the announcement that Jared Padalecki and Genevieve Cortese are engaged. One person across whose comments I have unfortunately stumbled has essentially said 'I CAN'T BELIEVE JARED IS GOING TO PAY FOR A WEDDING TO SOMEONE HIS FANS HATE WITH OUR MONEY'.

Firstly: Jared has not committed a crime against his fanbase by choosing to marry someone he wants to marry, rather than someone of whom his fans (speak for yourself, by the way) approve. All Jared owes us is his acting. We have absolutely no influence over his personal life. We have no right to influence his personal life.

Secondly: as we as fans don't actually know much about Cortese as a person, I can only assume that the dislike of her is based on a dislike of the way she played Ruby. I personally liked her Ruby, but that's beside the point. If you don't think someone is a good actor, that does not mean she is not a good person. I can't act at all, but I hope that doesn't mean I deserve to have scorn and derision poured on non-acting-related areas of my life.

I have seen absolutely no solid reasons to hate Cortese. All I have on which to base my judgement of her as a person is our very brief exchange whilst she gave me her autograph at Asylum, and she was lovely then. That's not solid evidence that she's lovely in her day-to-day life, no, but I am happy to assume, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that she is not a horrible person (would Jared be marrying her if she were?). Hatred is a dangerous judgement; surely it should be based on something.

Another argument I've seen is 'he can't marry her, she's not pretty enough'. This is evidently complete nonsense, because she is adorable, but even if she weren't: attractiveness is not a requirement. Even if Cortese were the ugliest person on the planet, that would not mean she didn't 'deserve' Jared.

In conclusion: please stop saying that Jared 'deserves better'. You do not know his fiancée, and his personal life is really none of your business. I love the Supernatural fandom; please stop making me feel embarrassed to be a part of it. I really, really hope nobody attacks the poor woman in the street.

Er, sorry about the rant. Congratulations to Jared and Genevieve, and I hope they're very happy! Have some adorable dancing Pikachu videos to make up for this entry: one, two.

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I'm honestly starting to get a little creeped out by the whole engagement issue. Hell, I'm cool with RPS, but when people are like...trying to delve into someone's RL feelings and claiming they know what's right for someone, outside the bounds of a fictional construct, I get twitchy. Sometimes even the people DEFENDING the relationship cross that line, and...I don't know. There's boundaries, you know? I'm trying to stay the everloving fuck out of the whole debate (this is srsly my first comment on the matter ANYWHERE), but...It's absurd and depressing and, imo, just plain skeevy, how big of a deal this has blown up into (lol why am I even SURPRISED anymore?). Raaarr, people. :/ (FTR, this is one of the classiest posts I've seen on the matter. :3 ) ~~okay no more edits NOW~~

Edited 2010-01-07 13:12 (UTC)

There really are boundaries. Er, yes, I do write and read RPF, so one might question exactly to what degree I respect those boundaries, but there are definitely lines I won't cross. I felt a bit weird about even posting this entry, but I tried very hard not to go into 'I KNOW THESE PEOPLE AND I KNOW HOW THEY ARE FEELING' territory, because of course I don't. For all I know, she could be a demon mind-controlling him into marrying her, but in the absence of evidence there's something very unsettling about jumping to such conclusions.

YES, EXACTLY. For the most part, my flist's reaction has been perfectly gracious and awesome, because I tend not to friend the wanktastic ones, but every single time I've ventured somewhere non-flist, there's some idiot spewing irrational ownership crap that just boggles my freaking mind. Ick.

(...Okay, it's been hours and I still can't get over the "with fans' money!" comment. That is so very fucked-up. D: I'm just going to ignore everything until The Mentalist comes back next week. Next! Week! Seven! Days! :D :D :D)

Sometimes even the people DEFENDING the relationship cross that line, and...I don't know.

I get that. I mean there's non-creepy defenses like "It's none of our damn business" or "What little evidence there is for drawing a conclusion suggests she's perfectly nice and they make each other happy" or basically anything Riona said, but it's easy to veer off into completely different creepy territory with "I approve of this relationship, therefore it's okay!" as if they needed the permission of some random fan.

Yeah. It ends up being the same coin, different side when they defend it with that LACK of awareness that it's not their judgment call to make anyway. SCARY BIZZNASS.

Edited 2010-01-08 06:54 (UTC)

LOL TINHATS, and ilu <3

I'm not sure I can even LOL at tinhattery this alarming.

Looking at it from a fanfiction point of view, everything just got 160% kinkier because now Jared has to cheat on Genevieve in order to do the nasty with Jensen. Would this not be a plus for RPSers? 8DD

Or they could handwave it as an open relationship! But that would require logic :(

Ah, logic, a thing the Supernatural fandom lost long ago. =(

Edited 2010-01-07 12:56 (UTC)

Dude, that would mean they'd get to write Genevieve/Danneel Harris (http://cdn.maxim.com/22001-22500/22300_danneel_harris_gm_l4.jpg)! That's totally a bonus.

y halo thar >:)

Apparently simply writing fanfiction is now not enough for some. I'm starting to wonder whether people are actually trying to orchestrate their getting together.

She is very pretty! I haven't seen Supernatural, but fans need to stfu and stop thinking they own people.

Exactly! When I bought my Supernatural DVDs, I hadn't realised I was in fact buying shares in the actors' lives.

(I have only just realised that you're holding a soft toy mole in your icon. Adorable!)

'I CAN'T BELIEVE JARED IS GOING TO PAY FOR A WEDDING TO SOMEONE HIS FANS HATE WITH OUR MONEY'.

*JAWDROP*

I've "known" (ie. internet heresy) that Jared and Genevieve were engaged for days now, so I've had almost a solid week of seeing people weeping, gnashing their teeth, using the 'he can't marry her; she's not pretty enough' gambit, expressing concern over how they're 'rushing into it' or 'not right for each other' or 'Jared's making a huge mistake', noting that they miss Sandy, or my personal favourite, insinuating that this has something to do with Jared and Jensen being in love.

What it boils down to is that fandom has always treated these men like their boyfriends; many people react badly to the news of Gen and Jared (or Jensen and Danneel) getting engaged and then tried to justify it by making it look like they're concerned for him, or by turning into a screaming, self-centered lunatic. What it really boils down to is that these people are either jealous - something they staunchly deny by detailing how great their lives are, in a classic case of 'doth protest too much' - or they're reacting badly on a subconscious level to the loss of something they see themselves as having ownership over. I always like to imagine this as having parallels of their ex-boyfriend/best friend getting married to somebody else. It all fits: the jealous snarking, the faux-concern, the tantrums, the attempt to prove ownership.

This comment is now almost as long as your post, so I will say: congratulations to Jared and Genevieve and thank fuck I have the apparently rare ability to accept the things I can't change.

I think you probably have it more or less spot on. There's so much apparent concern and so little basis for it, and I find the amount of claim some fans seem to feel they have to the lives of people they don't personally know deeply, deeply unsettling.

People are so stupid. Jesus.

Your post is right on the money.

This? Is why I'd rather stay out of the actor's lives of shows I like. It's their personal business. You don't have to like it, but you stay the hell out of it, because it's nothing to do with us. It's nobody's right to dictate what he does with his life... other than him.

Also: if you're concerned about how somebody will use your money... you don't give them money. If you're getting enjoyment out of a set of DVDs you bought you're getting your money's worth. And that's all you paid for, not any form of control over somebody's life.

I would honestly not be surprised if people stopped acting or whatever because of the huge negligible effect it has on their personal life, and that is sad.

To be fair (though I haven't read any of the rants) I think it's less "Jared's marrying Cortese" and more "Jared's marrying [somebody who isn't me]!"

Any argument about prettiness can be ignored as rose-tinted glasses, as Jared isn't - to me anyway, maybe different to others - the most attractive person who ever lived either. That's not to say he's ugly (and even if he were it's irrelevant) but he's not utterly perfect in the looks department is all.

I also offer congrats! I doubt this will ever be read as I would be terrified to sift through insane reactions to find sensible ones, but I'll offer it anyway. Have a good life! :)

If you're getting enjoyment out of a set of DVDs you bought you're getting your money's worth. And that's all you paid for, not any form of control over somebody's life.

Exactly! I thought my boxset of the first two seasons of Supernatural was reasonably-priced just for forty episodes; if I was also buying the right to dictate the actors' personal lives, it was ridiculously cheap. Also slightly immoral.

I think it's less "Jared's marrying Cortese" and more "Jared's marrying [somebody who isn't me]!"

I'd be happier if that were the case, I think, but as it is I feel I've been seeing a lot of specifically Cortese-directed vitriol. I don't remember seeing such a backlash to the announcement of Jared's engagement to his previous girlfriend. There's really no reason for it, as far as I can tell.

I bought the boxset of all three seasons you recommended to me and that was dirt cheap. I was quite happy with that arrangement!

Hmm. Maybe part of it is people disliking Ruby or her acting style (because, you know, that makes you a horrible person who nobody should ever like) or just because she is a very pretty lady. Some people seem to have problems differentiating between characters and their actors (I read something years ago as an interview with the actor of some soap villain who got people verbally abusing them in the street for being so mean to poor whatever-their-name-was).

I only hope she has the good sense to not take it seriously and the ability to laugh it off (if a little uneasily!).

Part of the SPN fandom is impressively and ridiculously batshit.

Luckily, there're also parts that are going OH GOD JUST STOP IT WITH THE BATSHIT ALREADY GEEZ. Some of these parts just don't like the gossip full stop, and some of just don't like the batshit at all.

I'm waiting for the fandom wank report in all its glory. Any moment now, I'm sure.

Luckily, there're also parts that are going OH GOD JUST STOP IT WITH THE BATSHIT ALREADY GEEZ.

Yes! The vast majority of the fandom is perfectly lovely and sane; it's such a shame that the behaviour of a few has created such a poor reputation for the rest.

It's like the people in Torchwood who're still going on about Ianto's death. At some point you just have to go 'okay, and now I am overinvested in fandom and do something else for a bit'.

And those Torchwood people also give the rest of Torchwood fandom a bad rep.

Edited 2010-01-08 18:20 (UTC)

(I'm from the East Midlands. But I'm 28 and I can't record sound so, sorry, I can't help sparklenight)
That is why the SPN fandom scares me (well that and all the Dean-gets-raped-by-Sam and weird stuff in fic). All right so only parts of it but they still manage to taint the rest of us sometimes. I just want to slap them all, repeatedly. Idiots. Someone posted about the stupid comments people were making when Jensen got engaged as well and honestly, if I was his fiancee I would be terrified.
(And 'our money'? What? Because they buy a few DVDs that gives them the right to dictate the actors' lives?)
Personally I didn't like her at all as Ruby. I loved other-Ruby but not Cortese's version, but partly I think that was just the way the character was written later on and not completely down to Cortese herself (though I did think she was a bit... stilted sometimes too). But that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with who she is as a person, and it's no one else's business who she marries (or who Jared marries). If they want to get married, good luck to them.

I was initially rather confused, because my first encounter with SPN fans consisted largely of Riona and people she'd routinely socialize with, and I was all "What's wrong? Everyone's lovely, no one wants the show to be misogynist, people who like Wincest and other such things are understanding about their tastes not being everyone's, and the RPF is written with an eye towards sanity and understanding they own neither Jared nor Jensen."

Then I poked my head out and saw the other bits of Supernatural fandom. Bit of a shock.

LOL. I'm sort of glad I was aware of some of the crazies (though that was more people obsessed with weird stuff regarding the fictional characters rather than RPF/discussing the real people, which I've always avoided) before I found decent fans, even if they did really put me off the fandom. But it's still a bit scary that there are apparently quite so many of these obsessive nutters out there who either can't tell fact from fiction or think they own the actors.

See, weird stuff in fic doesn't usually get to me. People being a jackass about it in some way does, and some of it's not my thing. But I rarely get bothered that other people like fic about freaky stuff.

Stuff like this, where people seem to sincerely think the actor they like watching on television owes them something, really annoys me, though.

It depends on how weird and how sexualised it is. I know I'm not easy to freak out, I've read some pretty bizarre stuff (not fanfic) before but occasionally I think some people are way too sick in the head and if people associated me with them because we're watching the same TV show, I'd feel pretty crap (which thankfully hasn't happened to me so far, that I know of, but I've read other people complain about that sort of thing). Whereas something like mpreg or genderswap stuff I think is weird and it may squick me but it doesn't make me want to run away screaming, I can live with it existing and be friends with people who like that stuff as long as they don't make me read it.

Eh, I tend to chalk it up to "Has a dark imagination and/or some truly weird kinks" and not worry about it unless it's accompanied by non-fic weirdness indicating it really is part of a bigger problem. Like there's been one or two people out there who get into discussions about incest-fic with "It's good and healthy and natural! And so is actual incest that people do in real life! We should all screw our relatives!" statements, and I'd be a lot more 0_o about incest-fic written by them, or fic that turned into a "Why this is good and right lecture!" written by anyone, but usually I don't read much into it.

Of course I've got kind of a weird imagination myself sometimes, and I don't want someone to go "She really got into having the main character tormented in that fic/she wrote rapefic/she combined sex and broken glass! (Thank you, Riona.) What's wrong with her?" So I skew strongly towards not judging others for that sort of thing.

Edited 2010-01-08 23:04 (UTC)

Heh, I guess I'm kind of jaded when incest strikes me as a more normal thing to write about (not saying it *is* normal, just in a fictional context, it doesn't bother me). It's more... child-rape as a kink and stuff like that that gets me. Or just endless sexual torture and humiliation type stuff.
I write weird shit too (sex and broken glass *and* 2 Derren Browns *grins*) so maybe I'm hypocritical but I think there's a difference between writing something as crack to amuse people or even just writing something as a plot point, and writing something as 'serious' and graphic porn-without-plot to get people off (though I'd hope no one writes child-rape in crack). Also, and I know this is an entirely personal thing, but I think it's different writing weird (serious) stuff with OCs as opposed to doing horrible things to other peoples' characters. TV characters for instance, I can put the actors' faces to them. That would put me right off writing about them getting raped or whatever (and I suppose partly I don't understand the 'I really love this person/am very attracted to them, so I want to see them being repeatedly gang-raped by demons (or whatever)' idea; if it's a character people hate, that makes more sense to me, even if I don't agree with that either).
Though don't get me wrong, I don't go round posting "You're sick in the head" comments on peoples' fic or emailing them insults or anything like that. I've never actually insulted anyone specifically. I just sit in the corner rocking and feeling creeped out, mostly.

PS I should probably say, maybe these things just bug me more since I've only been reading fanfic of any kind for a few months. I've never been 'in fandoms' really before last year. I think it's probably something you mostly get immune to after a while (and also physically just learn to filter out; some of the weirder stuff I came across when I was more generally reading fic, rather than looking in specific places as I do now).

For me, being around fanfic more makes a difference. Not just desensitization, but also finding that for pretty much any type of fic that freaks me out, I'll end up being friends with one perfectly lovely and rational person who writes that for reasons that actually make sense, which may even be the same reason that I write stuff that freaks other people out. So it's hard for me to be creeped out in the way you're describing, even when it's nasty stuff written to get off. Because I expect what I usually run into - very nice people going "This is a completely freaky kink that would be profoundly wrong to put into practice in real life, and I have no idea why I like writing fic about it, but I really do, and apparently some of you actually want to read it!"

I don't have many LJ friends (and don't go on many communities - I just don't have time), and I guess probably, hmm, less than a third of those friends are ones from any fandoms. So my experience of fanfic writers, especially up to a couple of months ago, was mainly limited to total strangers writing stuff. So I didn't get the... I can't think of the word... but no discovering them as a person, no disclaimer about whether it's something they think is really wrong but acceptable in fiction or suchlike and nothing about their reasons for writing whatever. Just people posting all weird contextless stuff and other people posting about how hot that was. Which sort of seems to be more of a Wincest thing than the SPN pairing I'm interested in (Dean/Cas - or for that matter the other couple of fandoms I'd say I was involved in) so is something really I can ignore mostly (well not always but more) now having figured out LJ communities and that but, it *seriously* put me off the whole SPN fandom for several months (I only started watching SPN last year) when all I seemed to find was people with bizarre and sometimes completely sick kinks and fans of those same kinks (well that and Sam/Dean domestic fluff which I also hate, heh, though that's not creepy as such). It probably is different when you know the people more or at least have some idea about them rather than just seeing individual pieces of fiction, but I still don't really have that; the few fandom friends I have now don't seem to write any of the stuff that would really creep me out or if they do then I don't know that they do.

My first encounter with SPN fandom came from fandom_wank, so I had a rather opposite approach, in that I started out thinking they were all batshit tinhats, and then discovered that there were sane parts as well.

Really, people can write all the weird fanfiction they want; if someone wants to write about Dean getting raped by Sam, fair enough. I personally won't be reading it, but it's not hurting anyone. It's only when people seem convinced that they know all about and/or are somehow owed some control over the actors' real lives that I become uneasy.

I'm glad you're able to separate Cortese's acting from her as a person! (And quite sad that that ability isn't a given in this fandom.)

Mm, they can write it and read it and wank over it or whatever they want to do as long as they leave me out of it, but it's still insanely weird when that's all they write, just these fics that are endless variations on Sam rapes Dean or John rapes Dean or Dean gets abused by someone else or whatever (seriously, what is it about Dean that says 'rape me'? I don't get it), not even as part of some overall story where it's a plot point that actually makes any sense and is not 'sexualised' (that, maybe I can deal with). I don't necessarily mean just rape even, often straightforward rape actually seems very tame. It's like... demon-Sam makes multiple copies of himself to screw Dean constantly and just bizarre stuff like that (I'm sure I saw something about Dean spontaneously has cum constantly materialise in his mouth the other day, very briefly before my brain blocked it out). I'm completely bewildered how anyone can even think these things up never mind find them hot. I don't even go looking for weird stuff but it still turns up. Oh and sex with little kids fic. urgh. That creeps me out no end. I mean something like mpreg squicks me but that doesn't creep me out and make me feel skeevy about sharing the same fandom as some of these people. I end up wanting to scrub myself to get the taint off just reading some of the story headers sometimes. LOL

That probably happens with everything on TV really though. Probably not necessarily the jealousy aspect but people start beating up actors from Coronation Street or whatever because their character does something nasty. Though with Coronation Street it does usually sound like it's mostly little old ladies (with umbrellas! They always seem to hit people with umbrellas) who have trouble telling fact from fiction, so that's probably a bit different to the SPN fandom. The principle's the same though, sadly.

personally, I've been cackling with glee over some of the reactions to the announcement, but I do agree that it is getting really, really out of hand.
We don't know these people, what right do we have to say who they can or can't marry? that's getting awfully personal and intrusive and I wouldn't blame Jared or Genevieve if they ran away to the mountains and never acted again after all this! :P

Exactly! The actors of Supernatural have been wonderful in their engaging with the fans, coming to conventions and so on; I do hope they don't see any of this nonsense, because if they did I imagine they would hide in concrete bunkers and we'd never see them again.

Okay, that is epically fucked up. I mean none of us know whether she's a good person or not (there's very weak evidence to support her being nice, and so far I've not seen any for her being mean). And why the hell do people consider themselves the Prettiness Police in terms of who other people marry? Leaving aside Cortese being perfectly pretty (as it's not relevant, and would get into a pointless debate), people get into perfectly happy relationships with people who aren't all that great looking on a regular basis. It's not like she habitually stabs dogs or anything (which would probably have an impact on their future happiness).

I much prefer dealing with RPF fandoms where people go "Okay, in reality it's quite likely none of this is happening, and it's none of our business anyway. Let's go back to entertaining each other with a game of pretend, and not bother the nice people as they get on with their actual lives."

I... don't even know what to say. I'm honestly appalled that fans think he owes us anything. It's such a perversion of the very definition of "fan" and it makes me want to a)punch them in the throat or b)curl up under a rock until all the stupid goes away.

I was glad to read your report of Genevieve. I think she's adorable and I loved her as Ruby, but I know that I'm in the minority here. Hopefully she'll make more public appearances so that fans will be able to separate Gen from Ruby and all this nonsense will stop.

Yay, thanks for the promotion!

Actors Are Not Your Posable Dolls

Wait... are you suggesting that my plan to kidnap a bunch of actors, give them motor neurone inhibitors and then use them to enact a life size, stop motion version of Star Trek: TOS, might be... wrong?*

I can't act at all, but I hope that doesn't mean I deserve to have scorn and derision poured on non-acting-related areas of my life.

You... you can't act? Oh man... I may need to reconsider our friendship...

because she is adorable,

Obviously the crazy!fans have it round the wrong way, they should be unhappy because Cortese is marrying Jened or Jarsen or whatever his name is instead of them.

I really, really hope nobody attacks the poor woman in the street.

Well yes, if she wanted to be attacked in the street she's have played a panto or soap opera villain. Small children and middle aged women with heavy bags of shopping can be vicious...

*Disclaimer: I don't actually intend to do this. I'm not a big fan of Star Trek: TOS.

My mother is from the East Midlands! ...But if she was aged 18 to 25 the fact that I'm turning 26 in two days would involve time travel (http://starslip.com/2008/09/15/starslip-number-870/). And now that I remember me she's actually from the WEST Midlands so all of this is pretty much useless anyway. Still, I got to link Starslip.

You know, reading/writing RPF doesn't mean you don't respect the actors; not respecting the actors means you don't respect the actors, and you totally respect the actors as demonstrated here and in other places. So, no need to worry. The crazy fans, well, y'know, going to hell.

In response to a comment on the previous post, from posted pictures, you totally do look a fair bit like Genevieve Cortese.

Reading/writing RPF doesn't mean you don't respect the actors; not respecting the actors means you don't respect the actors, and you totally respect the actors as demonstrated here and in other places.

Just so you know, I want to print this on a sign or plaque, hang it on a wall, and tap it constantly. All you have to do is tell me if you want to get cited in Chicago or MLA style.

I'm from Notts! But the fact that I hate my accent and hate speaking might make me a little bit useless with your request. D:

I read some really, really horrifying comments on Twitter in regards to the engagement news and, honestly, I'd like to get violent with some of these "fans".

I was working for the hind of last year, and it is utterly the most depressing thing ever to come back to a fandom that is actively saying they know what's best for real people. I wonder how these fans would act if someone were actively saying that their betrothed needs to be 'removed from the picture' so that they could sidle up with their best (or, you know, not best) friend. It would be considered something to the tone of stalking.

Ugh. This isn't even tinhatting anymore, this is people who have drank some fucked up kool aid.

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Actors Are Not Your Posable Dolls: A Rant.

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